Old Style Evie/Why "gods" are bullshit.

[ApeNotKillApe]

So the point is "God" is not fucking all powerful if he doesn't even have "free will" himself.
So... yeah... gods are fucking bullshit.

I guess you must have solid evidence that religions represent God.  
Good.  
Let us see this evidence.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

[Little Rik]

I guess you must have solid evidence that religions represent God.  
Good.  
Let us see this evidence.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

You are NOT paying attention to what Evie wrote.
Evie's OP rely on religions point of view that they represent God but there is no evidence that God
agree with what religions say therefore Evie start his OP with the wrong foot.
It is true that Theist believe in God as your link say but what this has to do with the fact that religions represent God or not?  

Many Theists like myself have absolutely nothing to do with religions so if religions talk bullshit you or Evie can not blame that on God or on all Theists.
If you don't agree with what religions say then take on them not on God.
If you then can find solid evidence that God say this or that then take on him.

[ApeNotKillApe]

The ONLY representations of God are those purported by religion, God has yet to represent itself and so humans represent it in its absence, and in the event that God does exist but all previously presupposed representations are incorrect, what still remains intact is Epicurus' representation of God as either impotent or malevolent, the former of which disqualifies the entity as God by definition.

[Little Rik]

The ONLY representations of God are those purported by religion

Religions can go around saying that they represent God.
That doesn't mean that what they say is true.
Only God can represent Him self.
I say Him because i need to refer to some entity.

God has yet to represent itself and so humans represent it in its absence

Put in this way.
Suppose your name is Paul Smith.
Some people pop out saying that they represent you.
But wait a minute Paul.
You never agree to be represented by these people therefore what these people say is all bullshit.
They have no right of whatsoever to represent you unless you give the permission to be represented by these people therefore these people shouldn't be taken in any consideration.

.........and in the event that God does exist but all previously presupposed representations are incorrect, what still remains intact is Epicurus' representation of God as either impotent or malevolent, the former of which disqualifies the entity as God by definition.

Epicurus is an other mental masturbator.
He can not read God mind whether God exist or not therefore all his guessing can well be flush down the sewer.  

[ApeNotKillApe]

Religions can go around saying that they represent God.
That doesn't mean that what they say is true.
Only God can represent Him self.
I say Him because i need to refer to some entity.

That also means that what you're saying isn't necessarily true, they might be right while you are wrong. How can you prove to the contrary?

Put in this way.
Suppose your name is Paul Smith.
Some people pop out saying that they represent you.
But wait a minute Paul.
You never agree to be represented by these people therefore what these people say is all bullshit.
They have no right of whatsoever to represent you unless you give the permission to be represented by these people therefore these people shouldn't be taken in any consideration.

I can say: "I'm Paul Smith. I'm being misrepresented."

Epicurus is an other mental masturbator.
He can not read God mind whether God exist or not therefore all his guessing can well be flush down the sewer.  

And you can read God's mind, right? How very strange that you, one who refers to people who think as 'mental masturbators' would be the only person in the universe that was granted such insight. How very wise and enlightened you are, that you disregard one of the most renowned thinkers in history without actually addressing his point and instead suggest it be flushed down a drain, the wisdom is just emanating from you, really.

[GrandizerII]

Oh, shit, Rik is here.

[The Inquisition]

He can not read God mind whether God exist or not therefore all his guessing can well be flush down the sewer.  

If you're claiming to read the mind of god, then your claims can be flushed down the sewer as well.

[The Inquisition]

Okay, years ago I used to actually debate religion and talk about why it is bullshit a lot more.

So here is an actual old-style Evie thread about why gods are utter, utter total bullshit.

1. What actually is a god?

Everyone defines gods differently, some define them literally based on scripture to the point where they are full of absolute, complete total and utter impossible bullshit logical contradictions. If you take the Bible, the Koran or the Book of Mormon for example, and you believe in any of them completely literally, it is full of so many contradictions that the "God" you believe in must be logically contradictory and therefore impossible.

If you want contradictions in any of these fucktarded holy books, here is the perfect website for you:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Then there's those who cherry pick out the parts in scripture they dislike to the point where it's actually logical possible for god to exist, but they still have no fucking evidence and it's still utterly ridiculous.

Then there's those who define god in such a watered down way that they reduce god to a mere concept, and as Daniel Dennett said:

God is not a concept. The concept of God is a concept. A cup of coffee is not a concept. The concept of a cup of coffee is a concept. [It's]Elementary philosophy

At this point it's not even a supernatural deity anyone is talking about.

2. Gods are undetectable and unfalsifiable and there can be no evidence for them because they are supernatural.

Like seriously... people want to define "God" as not only invisible but also intangible and outside space and time?

This is why I gave up asking for evidence for gods, it's not just because I won't believe without evidence, but it's because I don't think there even can be any.

"Supernatural" deity is just a synonym for "undetectable and fucktarded" deity. Seriously... anything supernatural is undetectable and unfalsifiable by science and is thereby outside of the scope of a little thing I like to call REALITY.

It's pointless asking for evidence for something defined in such a way that even if this "God" displayed himself to us and threw mountains around and talked in his big booming godly voice, this would not be proof of anything supernatural.... it would be proof of something natural and detectable by science and observation, something not outside off space nor time.... and even if "God" was NOT defined in such a way that he must never show himself to us and he must stay outside space and time, it still wouldn't be proof of a creator "God"... because at the very least it would be indistinguishable from an extremely powerful extra terrestrial that had evolved like all other lifeforms, was not "supernatural" at all and was merely posing as "God".

3. Belief in Belief, and how believers actions don't match what they believe.

Daniel Dennett introduced this concept:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Belief_in_belief

Okay so... there are so many religious people who clearly believe that believing in God(s) is a good thing, a noble thing. There are those who believe that without a God you can't be moral.

Not only is this complete bullshit but it's not the same thing as believing a supernatural deity exists of course. And hoping that God exists, and professing belief in God and trying to "have faith", is not the same as actually believing that there's an actual deity that created the universe...

...this is where reasons for "belief" in God becomes not only emotional and irrational, but gets to the point where it seems like the believer is in denial about what they actually believe about the true origins of the universe, and they just merely can't live with the idea of believing that there isn't a creator looking after them and everyone else they care about.

Another thing that ties into this is the whole bullshit "Pascal's Wager" thing. How the fuck can you make a wager about whether to believe in God based on the consequences of what you think would happen because of believing or not believing?

You are either believe something exists or you don't. If someone offers you a big reward if you believe something or they wish to punish you if  you don't believe it, that won't affect what you actually believe in any way. No one can help what evidence they are convinced by, or what lack of evidence they are not convinced by. What someone actually thinks corresponds to reality has absolutely nothing to do with what belief they actually would like to hold so they can feel more comfortable about themselves.

Not only this but the whole Pascal's Wager bullshit thing...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

...is completely fucktarded. Because there are an infinite number of conceivable gods that could send you to and infinite number of conceivable Heavens or Hells, not just the ones described in absolute complete total and utter bullshit Scriptures like the Bible, Koran or Book of Mormon... so there are just as many conceivable gods who would send atheists to heaven and send believers to hell, the whole Pascal's Wager thing is fucking fucktarded.

Furthermore, real genuine belief as opposed to merely hoping or wanting to believe: It makes people behave like they actually believe. At the end of the day people are going to trust science and evidence when it comes to important things like their health and safety, any of the more moderate believers are not going to choose bullshit like prayer over that, and that displays the fact what people profess to believe and what they actually believe is very different.

4. If "God" exists he is a total cunt or an idiot and we shouldn't believe in him anyway:

Seriously... if there really is a god who created the universe they either don't give a shit about how fucked up the world is, or they're very incompetent and can't do anything about it, or they're an absolute, complete, total and utter cunt of bastard.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

Epicurus fucking nailed it hundreds of years before the Bible or so-called Jesus even fucking existed. Clever philosophical bastard.

5. The so-called "Free Will" excuse.

Oh for fucks sake. Okay... so God can allow murders and rapists and wars because he gives such people "free-will"

A. What kind of a fucking horrible caretaker is he?  That isn't taking care of his creations. What a dipshit. Giving free will to utterly horrific people? What the fuck?

Thank fuck he doesn't exist and isn't someone's parent/thank fuck this isn't what the policy on any sort of Criminal Justice System is like. "Oh, just let them run riot and do what the fuck they like, they have free will."

B. For fucks sake. Free-will not only doesn't and can't exist in any sense besides merely defining our choices and decisions as "free", but God himself can't have free will either.

It doesn't matter whether you have a brain, a soul, whether you're natural or a supernatural deity of "God", either everything is predetermined and our wills are not free, or everything is undetermined and we are not free. Or a combination and we are not free because neither of those things added together are free... 0+0= still "0".

This applies to any "God" for exactly the same reason. If you wanna label your decisions and choices "free" and merely call that "free will", if you wanna be a compatabilist, fine. But remember that doesn't change the fact that we're either determined or undetermined and there have been scientific experiments that confirm that every action and decision we make is decided for us by our unconscious minds sometimes as much as 7 seconds before our conscious minds are even aware of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FanhvXO9Pk

So the point is "God" is not fucking all powerful if he doesn't even have "free will" himself.

So... yeah... gods are fucking bullshit.

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P.S. The swearing is for humorous effect. I'm not even remotely angry. In fact my life is awesome and happy!

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Enjoyed the post, I've found that realizing terms like "supernatural" and/or phrases like "beyond time and space" are ways of describing something that is imaginary or doesn't exist. It saves so much time with the word-salad warriors.

[robvalue]

Very nice! I've mostly known the new Evie, but the old one knows how to kick ass

There are plenty of great arguments why "God" is a nonsense concept, many of which you've nailed here.

The biggest problem comes with people's refusal to stop after "creator of our reality". Seriously. Stop there, and we can talk sensibly. Wibble on for another hour about all these ridiculous qualities it is supposed to have and awards it has given itself, what it's not made out of, and a list of excuses why science can't find it, and the conversation is going to be difficult.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Wow you completely refuted me, I'm impressed.

Would've been more impressive if he managed to do it with just one sentence instead.

I was being generous.