"ISIS is not Islamic

[mralstoner]

Why is any criticism of Islam met with allegations of racism? Why is it not okay to acknowledge that the religion itself is linked to groups like ISIS?

1 - Short-term damage control is prioritised over long-term safety.

2 - A belief that conflict is caused solely by rational actors i.e. all conflict is caused by circumstances such as poverty, racism, evil dictators, colonisers, etc. And that religion plays no part in violence.

3 - The whole facade of Western leadership will come crashing down if it is revealed that Islam is a religion of the sword. It will reveal the Western world is insane. Totally barking mad.

4 - A fear that acknowledging problems with Islam will lead to a re-awakening of white people acting in their own interests.

5 - Brown people worried that immigration will be curbed if Islam is acknowledged as violent.

etc etc. Lots of reasons.

[WinterHold]

Give one thing ISIS does, that Mexican drug cartels don't do.

Not live in Mexico?

War never changes.  It doesn't differ that much from Mexico to Arabia. We are all humans; same tactics, same methods...etc.

Catholic_Lady

Lots of thanks CL ! Appreciated.

Rhythm

Pretty sure that any given ISIL militants peers would call them "perfectly good people".  I have no trouble distinguishing Rayaan or Atlas or MK from a militant....I -cannot- dinstinguish their beliefs from each other in any more than an academic sense.  

So, you don't see a difference between us and ISIS in our understanding & interpretation of Jihad?

How would our beliefs be the same, if I contradict the ISIS militant to a degree of him, ordering me dead ? ya know, me, Mystic or Rayyan can go through a very slooooow beheading session if militiants got us

The question that I'm sure has flashed through the minds of ISIS before...and often enough my own, is -why- don't these guys agree with them?  Again...they claim to be taking orders from the same commander, and the same dispatch. They both claim that the book is without flaw, full of proof, and crystal clear.

In Iraq, American soldiers took orders from the same government, yet as some soldiers did many crimes, other soldiers too stood and did good :





If we judge by your mentality, WW3 will happen tomorrow.
Stop injecting bad blood into the mixture. Relax.

ISIS is -absolutely- representative of islam, even though it isn't representative of muslims, which must be a hell of a thing to come to terms with as a muslim. They both believe in the goodness and truth of the same terrible shit.....one group, apparently, is simply more compelled to act on it than the other.

No. It's proxy, fueled by vengeance for what happened to the people of that region.
Every move for ISIS is a victory for somebody around, check where their fighters mainly come from. It smells so bad, smells so corny,  did never show up until the American invasion happened.

ISIS smells like a wahhabi fella. Not like Islam.
It's the inevitable conclusion of believing in the sects.

[Cato]

ISIS smells like a wahhabi fella. Not like Islam.
It's the inevitable conclusion of believing in the sects.

This is all getting a bit ridiculous. Islam is not homogeneous, just like Christianity. You can no more claim that Wahhabism isn't Islamic than a Baptist can claim Catholicism isn't Christian. You yourself just indicated that we're discussing a difference in interpretation, referring to you asking for us to consider how jihad is interpreted. You may disagree with the interpretation, but saying it's not Islamic is silly.

[robvalue]

I can tell the core beliefs of two Muslims apart if one of them says the Quran and Hadiths are "the word of God" and another is honest enough to say it's "an interpretation of the word of God".

If instead they both say the former, they believe the same thing ultimately. The "moderates", when in this category, then go on to contradict themselves with much of rest of their beliefs, while "extremists" actually match their actions much more closely to the professed belief.

Just like Christianity and the bible.

[The Grand Nudger]

I know Atlas, I know..ISIS isn't islamic and it's all americas fault.  You're one bad case of indigestion away from screaming death to america...as far as I can tell....and you wonder why I have trouble understanding -why- you don't agree with ISIS?

[Cyberman]

Not live in Mexico?

War never changes.  It doesn't differ that much from Mexico to Arabia. We are all humans; same tactics, same methods...etc.

As I said elsewhere to elsewhom (okay I made that up) - I'm not going to insult you by assuming you really think that what you just wrote had any relevance to what I said.

[Cyberman]

To borrow from Sam Harris, the problems with Islamic Fundamentalism are to do with the fundamentals of Islam. If you truly have a religion of peace, such as Jainism, then its fundamentals will also be those of peace.

[ReptilianPeon]

In Iraq, American soldiers took orders from the same government, yet as some soldiers did many crimes, other soldiers too stood and did good :

George Bush and Tony Blair to International Criminal Court! Obviously that won't happen because they're too rich and/or powerful. Crime usually pays if you're rich.

No. It's proxy, fueled by vengeance for what happened to the people of that region.
Every move for ISIS is a victory for somebody around, check where their fighters mainly come from. It smells so bad, smells so corny, did never show up until the American invasion happened.

ISIS smells like a wahhabi fella. Not like Islam.
It's the inevitable conclusion of believing in the sects.

I don't think al-Saud's henchmen in Iraq and Syria are all influenced by the lies of Abdul Wahaab, however much money they may get from Saudi. I think they'd be too extreme even for him. And you know the Taliban refers to them as simply "a local gang", right? The former Iraqi generals, as Baathists, would have been mostly secular and I think they are simply being opportunists by being in charge of al-Saud's henchmen in Iraq and Syria.

[Catholic_Lady]

No problem, Atlas. Judging from what you've posted on these forums, you are clearly not like a member of Isis and it is horribly unfair that anyone would say you and them are "all the same" and that they "can't tell you apart."

For hating Trump so much, they do seem to have quite a bit in common when it comes to Muslims.

[Cyberman]

"They" is at least a broad a brush as the one you're decrying. I am one who doesn't deserve the painting with it.