Atheists still the most hated minority

[mediocrates]

Why, in a society where people are finally learning to understand others that are different from themselves

You aren't talking about 'Murrica, are you?

Maybe a smaller portion of it than I was originally estimating.

[Brian37]

I'd much rather be a hated atheist than a loved believer any day.  I prefer reality to delusion.

Oh, absolutely, agreed.

it's not the greatest being an atheist in this country.  No one bats an eye when someone says something hateful towards atheists.  But it's a hell of a lot worse for atheists in other countries, and that's the perspective I choose to take on the whole thing.

You may not agree with me on this,
but this part of your comment ties into why I take issue with people saying that Islamophobia = Racism.

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the bravery, individuality and sacrifice it can take for an Arab born in an Islamic country, to become an Apostate.

I admire an Apostate Arab, Islamic-nationality ex-muslim far more than many western Atheists I know.

Well yes and no on the "Islamophobia". There are morons who have a phobia for other's religions, there might even be a clinical word for that kind of phobia. But there are racists who fear even non violent Muslims. But I agree though, it isn't always racist or a phobia when someone is blaspheming or ridiculing a claim. While the west should not presume guilt and protect any and all minorities whatever their label, that still is not a licence to hide behind a religious label to avoid criticism. So for me, that gets a "it depends" on context of situation as to if it is bigotry and racism or merely blasphemy.

Oh and yes, even with atheists in the west, we have it good compared to Christians, and minority Muslims and even X Muslims still living in the more theocratic parts of the Middle East. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is my hero, I couldn't have done what she did.

[Regina]

I think people need to get over the idea that criticising tenets of Islam is the same as hating Muslims. Islam is an idea, like any other idea it shouldn't be above critique and perhaps even ridicule. I hate the term "Islamophobia", it's certainly not wrong to say prejudice against Middle Eastern people is a thing (and that's racism, not religious bigotry), but the way that word is used is just another trendy buzzword to kill conversations.

I feel the same way about all these different "phobias", homophobia transphobia etc. Why call someone "Xphobic" when you can destroy them with real arguments? Jumping to name-calling is weak and shows you have nothing else to work with.

I agree though, it's far braver to be an atheist in The Middle East than it is in The West. I have so much respect for these Arabs who publicly come forward to renounce Islam. It takes guts in a country where you can be sent to jail (or worse) for it.

[Mystic]

I don't know how it is in America, but in Canada, particularly in Ottawa, where I live, I've found society pretty tolerant of people including Atheists.

I hope society learns to be tolerant to humans to whatever they chose, and be forbearing.  

That said, I think Atheism ought to be combated and the system that replaces it ought to be love of the best of God's chosen ones by following their guidance and give sanctity to their light in all things.

[The Valkyrie]

All hail Odin ALLFather.

[Brian37]

I think people need to get over the idea that criticising tenets of Islam is the same as hating Muslims. Islam is an idea, like any other idea it shouldn't be above critique and perhaps even ridicule. I hate the term "Islamophobia", it's certainly not wrong to say prejudice against Middle Eastern people is a thing (and that's racism, not religious bigotry), but the way that word is used is just another trendy buzzword to kill conversations.

I feel the same way about all these different "phobias", homophobia transphobia etc. Why call someone "Xphobic" when you can destroy them with real arguments? Jumping to name-calling is weak and shows you have nothing else to work with.

I agree though, it's far braver to be an atheist in The Middle East than it is in The West. I have so much respect for these Arabs who publicly come forward to renounce Islam. It takes guts in a country where you can be sent to jail (or worse) for it.

I agree, but that does not mean there are not asshole bigots who simply hate someone's existence. Long before Trump started his Jerry Springer hate fest, the GOP said nothing as Obama's middle name, even before his first election used "Hussein" as a slur, and after he took office the GOP poored bigoted gas on the fire, which set Trump up to run, and he is playing his supporters like a fiddle.

Yes it does take guts to speak out in a place where you can be murdered by a mob or the state itself. But that isn't just atheists or former Muslims. Malala still believes and got shot by other Muslims for wanting an education.

Nor does that change the fact that even here in the states, we still have assholes who commit religiously based violence. PP shooter, Dillon Roof, abortion doctor murders. The bible is just as chalk full of justifications for violence and bigotry as the Koran is. The only thing that makes us less violent is secular law.

Religion in the west did not become civil because of religion, religion became more civil in the west in spite of religion because of secular law.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The level of tolerance we found in NZ was a refreshing change from elsewhere.  Whenever I'd travel in Europe or America, as soon as people found out I was from Northern Ireland, the immediate response was, 'Are you Protestant or Catholic?', which question was generally followed by a lecture on how NI could be 'fixed'.

This is a factual exchange:  While settling into our house in Kerikeri, a neighbour stopped by to welcome us.  After a few pleasantries, he said, 'You two have lovely accents.  Where are you from?'  I said, 'Belfast, Northern Ireland.'  He paused for a second or two (I could sense the missus starting to cloud up), then said, 'Is it nice there?'

That was it.  No jumping to conclusions, no lecturing me about the state of affair in a place I'd lived all my life - he just wanted to know if it was a nice place.

The world could do with a lot more people who don't give a fuck about someone else's religion. Or lack thereof.

Boru

[paulpablo]

In these modern times of acceptance and tolerance in America, minority groups of all kinds are experiencing fewer instances of abuse due to their minority status.  This trend is a positive result of general open-mindedness embraced by the thinking public.  The LGBT community is becoming accepted and gaining legal matrimonial rights, ethnic minorities are increasingly viewed without prejudice, and there are women in the current presidential race.  Just a few decades ago none of these things would have been possible or even foreseeable. There are isolated incidences of intolerances that seem to contradict this trend; but, they are not representative of the state of society overall which brings me to my question...

Why are atheists so vilified in this country?  Why, in a society where people are finally learning to understand others that are different from themselves, are people with no religious belief treated so poorly?  Stranger still, they are treated more poorly than people with differing religious beliefs! 

What brings this to my attention was a comment on a post I recently saw on facebook...



If the word 'atheist' in this comment were replaced with gay, christian, woman, muslim, black, etc...  The thread would explode with disapproving comments.  Instead, nothing.  (The second comment to the above was unrelated and irrelevant.)  Just a lone, insensitive comment, made about a minority simply for not holding the belief of the majority.  Thank you for your acceptance and tolerance.

So, to AF members atheist or not, what say you about this persistent intolerance in America?  What about similar conditions in other parts of our world?

The word replacement trick is a good one.  Imagine doing this with a bible or quran.  Imagine replacing the word "Disbeliever/disbelievers" with "black man/men" in the quran.

It's funny that there's hate speech laws to make a more progressive society yet they strangely overlook these bibles, quran verses and hadith that are basically like instruction manuals on how to throw away 1000 years of progression and go back to stoning, flogging, homophobia, and a belief in a god who burns people repeatedly for not believing in him.

[Brian37]

I don't know how it is in America, but in Canada, particularly in Ottawa, where I live, I've found society pretty tolerant of people including Atheists.

I hope society learns to be tolerant to humans to whatever they chose, and be forbearing.  

That said, I think Atheism ought to be combated and the system that replaces it ought to be love of the best of God's chosen ones by following their guidance and give sanctity to their light in all things.

Uggggg, you really should know better than that having been on this website for how long? 

First you say "I hope society learns to be tolerant to humans to whatever they chose, and be forbearing."

Then you say.

"That said, I think Atheism ought to be combated and the system that replaces it ought to be love of the best of God's chosen ones by following their guidance and give sanctity to their light in all things."

We should be fought? Why? Because we don't hold the same belief you do? Ok we feel religion should be fought, so? I hope you mean verbally only because that is where most atheists are at in "fighting" religion. 

"God's chosen ones", damn, too dense to see that is the crux of the problem right there. Christians and Jews also view themselves as the "Chosen ones". You cant see that claiming to be chosen pits you against other humans who also claim their god chose them? 

How about another option? The idea of a "chosen people" is the most vile idea any religion sells. It is why Sunnis and Shiites cant get along. Why Christians hate Muslims and Muslims hate Christians and Jews hate Muslims. Because all three stupidly think daddy likes them more than the other. It would be laughable if all three religions didn't have Nukes.

You were not "chosen" and neither are Christians and neither are Jews. There are simply humans with different beliefs and still no evidence for any three. Now it is unreasonable for any of you to think the others will magically go away, but no, there is no "chosen people".

That is nothing more than schoolyard street gang mentality. I am not that selfish to think the world could not live without me. I am not the only human on a planet of 7 billion.

[Mystic]

I don't know how it is in America, but in Canada, particularly in Ottawa, where I live, I've found society pretty tolerant of people including Atheists.

I hope society learns to be tolerant to humans to whatever they chose, and be forbearing.  

That said, I think Atheism ought to be combated and the system that replaces it ought to be love of the best of God's chosen ones by following their guidance and give sanctity to their light in all things.

Uggggg, you really should know better than that having been on this website for how long? 

First you say "I hope society learns to be tolerant to humans to whatever they chose, and be forbearing."

Then you say.

"That said, I think Atheism ought to be combated and the system that replaces it ought to be love of the best of God's chosen ones by following their guidance and give sanctity to their light in all things."

We should be fought? Why?

---

Because we don't hold the same belief you do? Ok we feel religion should be fought, so? I hope you mean verbally only because that is where most atheists are at in "fighting" religion. 

"God's chosen ones", damn, too dense to see that is the crux of the problem right there. Christians and Jews also view themselves as the "Chosen ones". You cant see that claiming to be chosen pits you against other humans who also claim their god chose them? 

How about another option? The idea of a "chosen people" is the most vile idea any religion sells. It is why Sunnis and Shiites cant get along. Why Christians hate Muslims and Muslims hate Christians and Jews hate Muslims. Because all three stupidly think daddy likes them more than the other. It would be laughable if all three religions didn't have Nukes.

You were not "chosen" and neither are Christians and neither are Jews. There are simply humans with different beliefs and still no evidence for any three. Now it is unreasonable for any of you to think the others will magically go away, but no, there is no "chosen people".

That is nothing more than schoolyard street gang mentality. I am not that selfish to think the world could not live without me. I am not the only human on a planet of 7 billion.

---

The chosen ones are the Prophets and divinely appointed Guides and chosen ladies like Mary and Sarah and Fatima. 

As for the rest, I know you knew what I meant, and so yes you should do your utmost to combat religion if you believe none of it is true.  It will help demolish all false religions for sure, if they are all false, they will all fall insh'allah, and if one stands to reason, it will stand insha'allah.