If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?

[ReptilianPeon]

Why are you so defensive Shead1980? Why can't Allah be clear with us instead of making it seem as though you are desperate. Why does the Quran but simply say: "at this point in time the surface area of the water on the Earth is 71%"? Instead we have to do all these silly sums which result in a figure less than 100%. Allah is not very good at relaying a message. I bet you I can do a numbers game to make the Quran say anything I want.

By the way, there is loads of water in glaciers, on pack ice and on ice sheers. Are you going to tell me they don't count just because it doesn't confirm your Quran? If all of Antarctica melted that would raise the sea levels be 60m and then the Quran would be wrong again.

In addition, there's lots of underground water. Does this not count either? I am very confused. Did people go to the Quran to find out how much water there is?

Why is it that people for hundreds of years, billions of people could not appreciate this miracle? Why is it only a miracle now that we know how much water there is? Why couldn't people figure it out before? All reasonable questions Shred1980.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

So who revised the Koran to include chapters and verses? It must have been done after the 16th Century.

[Angrboda]

These type of coincidences demonstrate nothing.  They result from people with two much time on their hands looking for significance where there is none.  Now if Muhammed had written about such numbers occurring in his text, I might not so casually dismiss it, but then it would be intentional.   There's nothing here that couldn't have happened by accident.  As far as proof of faith, none of these numerological miracles is convincing.  It's like the Davinci code; you can find parallels in any text of sufficient length.

The first thing u have to understand is Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn't write this or anything else in the Qur'an because he was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, and everybody who knew him knew this. That was one reason why God sent it through him. To show that no human could come up with such a scripture. But how about God says in the Qur'an The universe is expanding. How could anyone in the 7th century, when telescopes and satellites weren't even drawn up, have knowledge of this unless He created the universe. Today astronomists see our universe is still expanding to this day. Imagine drawing dots on a balloon then inflating it with air. The dots will move further away from one another which is exactly what stars and planets in our universe is doing as well. What human had knowledge of this, back in a time when they thought the Earth was flat and the mountains held up the skies?

Yeah, I don't believe that the people/person who wrote that passage meant anything like the modern scientific conception of inflation. You're just taking a passage which vaguely interpreted can be said to be consistent with modern scientific knowledge and claiming on the basis of that consistency that they had foreknowledge of the modern scientific understanding. It doesn't prove anything but that loose descriptions can sometimes accidentally describe other things than what they were originally intended to describe. It doesn't show that the consistency of the passage with modern knowledge is a sign that they had modern knowledge before it was available through ordinary means.

Or another example is the words for land and sea are mentioned 13 times and 32 times throughout the Qur'an. Add them to get 45. Then 13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.1111111% these are the exact scientific percentages of land and water that cover our planet to this day. No human knew this. So this book had to have come from someone who did have that knowledge, who is none other than Allah, our creator I have more for u if u like

And we're back to numerology. Do you understand that there is a qualitative difference between claims that the authors knew about universe inflation and claims that numerical coincidences are significant? I'm much more influenced by the former than the latter, but you seem to feel that they belong in the same category. That's sloppy thinking and makes me doubt that you are effective at applying reason to these claims generally if you can't see the difference.

[Sheed1980]

The first thing u have to understand is Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn't write this or anything else in the Qur'an because he was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, and everybody who knew him knew this. That was one reason why God sent it through him. To show that no human could come up with such a scripture. But how about God says in the Qur'an The universe is expanding. How could anyone in the 7th century, when telescopes and satellites weren't even drawn up, have knowledge of this unless He created the universe. Today astronomists see our universe is still expanding to this day. Imagine drawing dots on a balloon then inflating it with air. The dots will move further away from one another which is exactly what stars and planets in our universe is doing as well. What human had knowledge of this, back in a time when they thought the Earth was flat and the mountains held up the skies?

Yeah, I don't believe that the people/person who wrote that passage meant anything like the modern scientific conception of inflation.  You're just taking a passage which vaguely interpreted can be said to be consistent with modern scientific knowledge and claiming on the basis of that consistency that they had foreknowledge of the modern scientific understanding.  It doesn't prove anything but that loose descriptions can sometimes accidentally describe other things than what they were originally intended to describe.  It doesn't show that the consistency of the passage with modern knowledge is a sign that they had modern knowledge before it was available through ordinary means.

Or another example is the words for land and sea are mentioned 13 times and 32 times throughout the Qur'an. Add them to get 45. Then 13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.1111111% these are the exact scientific percentages of land and water that cover our planet to this day. No human knew this. So this book had to have come from someone who did have that knowledge, who is none other than Allah, our creator I have more for u if u like

And we're back to numerology.  Do you understand that there is a qualitative difference between claims that the authors knew about universe inflation and claims that numerical coincidences are significant?  I'm much more influenced by the former than the latter, but you seem to feel that they belong in the same category.  That's sloppy thinking and makes me doubt that you are effective at applying reason to these claims generally if you can't see the difference.

Here's another for u. In Arabic language there is no letter V. So they use a W to substitute. In 8:72 the letters WENUS appear. These letters don't appear again until 11:3. The last time they appear is 17:7. If u put a V where the W is it spells the planet Venus. There are 243 verses between 8:72 and 11:3. Science shows us that Venus takes exactly 243 days to revolve around the sun. Also science shows that Venus rotates on a 177 degree angle which are the numbers 17:7 in which it is mentioned last in the Qur'an.
Another interesting astronomical factor is 46:23 the letters MARS appear in orderand 46:30 letters DIMOS appear in order. This is the only chapter that both these names are mentioned together. The planet Mars has a moon named Deimos. Science has proved that Mars is covered with sand dunes. Interestingly ch 46 is Al-Ahqaf which is Arabic for Sand Dunes. Another good one for you is the word for moon is mentioned 27 times throughout the Qur'an and word for new moon is mentioned only once totalling 28. Science has proved that the moon that orbits our Earth has 28 phases it goes through every single month.

[Angrboda]

Yeah, you're so not getting what I'm saying. Are you just here for Dawah, because I'm not.

[Sheed1980]

Yeah, you're so not getting what I'm saying.  Are you just here for Dawah, because I'm not.

That's part of my duty to etell the truth about Islam. All I can do is tell u about it. How u take it is totally up to u

[robvalue]

Here's some real numerology for you.

Ask Allah what four digit number I'm thinking of. Simple, eh? Not one theist on the whole forum has even had the confidence to put forward a single guess, let alone get it right.

Should be a doddle for anyone actually in communication with a god. Time to give some actual evidence that it's not just a figment of your imagination, but something that can give you new information not easily acquired by other methods.

Four key strokes, or ten pages of excuses?

[Brian37]

So who revised the Koran to include chapters and verses?  It must have been done after the 16th Century.

If you got it right the first time, why would conflict exist at all? I find it absurd to blame the misinterpreted competing versions of even the same religion on those who claim they are reading it the proper way. If this universal god wants humans to get along, it seems  going out of his way to allow different versions and competing religions the opposite of the universal message he claims.

[Pat Mustard]

... but they must have been pretty awful at relaying their message to the Aztecs, say, who ripped people's hearts out in sacrifice because they were afraid the sun wouldn't rise the next day...

Or the arabs, who gave up pork and alcohol in favour of blowing themselves up real good.

[Pat Mustard]

Well after we die and leave this world we will all know the truth. Someone's gotta be right and someones gotta be wrong right? So again I say To you be your way if belief and to me be mine

No we won't, because we will be dead. Everything that makes will be gone, there will be no consciousness to comprehend, no brain to store data, no us to be curious about reality.

That's kind of the whole point of being dead, it's the end.