The Immorality of God - Slavery in the Old Testament

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yes I think people who think slavery is moral are disgusting monsters, It doesn't have to be right, wrong, or objective.

I guess not, but it just seems silly. If morality is just as subjective and unreal as "the best color in the world", for example, then someone having a different favorite color than yourself shouldn't make them a disgusting monster.

This analogy is flawed, because favorite colors don't have repercussions upon the lives of other humans.

[athrock]

Shallow words spoken like a high school underclassman.

Try to go a little deeper than the crap you've picked up from forums like this and Reddit.

Try to go a little deeper than the crap you have picked up in church.

Thanks.

I do and will. 

[athrock]

Odd that an allegedly omnipotent being couldn't simply enforce his wishes.

Odd that an allegedly perfect being should experience moral progress himself. Even more that he is incapable of setting a better example.

Odd that a timeless being should have followers appealing to "presentism" to defend his immorality.

He could, but not without trampling on free will.

God does not experience "progressive" morality. Not sure where this is even coming from. 

Presentism is a fallacious way that humans can misinterpret actions taken in the past. It is not correctly applied to those actions themselves.

[athrock]

Shallow words spoken like a high school underclassman.

Try to go a little deeper than the crap you've picked up from forums like this and Reddit.

Still mistaking baseless condescension with cogent refutation, I see.

Oh, right. That's what I meant. 

(At some point you might want to discreetly withdraw from the field of battle to lick your wounds and clear your head. That might take awhile.)

[Thumpalumpacus]

Would you, dear atheist, have been happier if God had forced the Israelites to obey him?

Would you prefer that He force YOU to obey?

Because God chose to "woo" the Israelites by degrees, you say this proves He was not omnipotent; but if He had used force on them (or you), He would have been the "moral monster" to which you object by trampling on your free will.

This is a classic attempt to have it both ways.

Why not just educate the people that slavery was evil and they shouldn't do it?

Or simply put it on that list of things called Commandments ... except that would violate free will.

[athrock]

You've yet to do anything of any real substance.  You've convinced absolutely nobody of anything.  You haven't proven your invisible friend as moral.  If anything you've helped reinforce my understanding that Yahweh is nothing more than an invention of the Hebrew people, because his morals matched theirs.  Pretty simple stuff really.  The only thing you'll be mopping up is the bullshit you're spreading around here.

No surprise to see you attack feminists though.  Your misogny is showing.  Especially since you don't attack specific feminists, but groups of feminists.  And you do it very emotionally.  You want to talk about bad advice, I'd say bad advice is right up the alley of the bible.  Bad advice written by goat herders who knew less about the world than a 7 year old today does.

[athrock]

Damn, girl. Is this really that hard? You keep trying to force a false dilemma on me, but I have already stepped between its horns.

What God revealed to the Israelites was that which they could handle at that time. And it was progress toward a higher standard. Would you care to concede that progress, btw?

Moral standards for slavery in the ancient world were all over the map.  Hebrew slavery standards weren't so much a step forward as a lateral move into more of the same.  

Can you document this, Jorm? Cause it sounds like puffery to me.

Tell you what, you do your homework...come up with some examples of how other ANE civilizations had laws pertaining to slavery that were so similar to those of the Mosaic Law as to be virtually indistinguishable, and I will concede that the Hebrews were simply making a "lateral move".

Deal?  

And you here are trying to sidestep the immorality of your god by claiming that a little immorality isn't a bad thing so long as its justified by a small amount of progress.  You haven't stepped between the horns.  You've just stepped in the shit. Teaching the Israelites a slightly immoral set of slavery practices is still immoral.   What 'progress' the Israelites made does not morally offset the cost to foreign slaves as well as Hebrew ones.  If that isn't clear to you, I don't think you grasp the nature of morals.  A good done to one set of people does not make a harm to another set of people moral.

If you had been what Ex-Lax insists was a SEX-slave in the ANE, Jorm, would you have preferred to be the wife of an Israelite who was bound by Law to treat you well or that of a pagan Canaanite who might offer your children as burnt offerings to his false gods?

(I am seriously hoping you have the courage to answer truthfully with all of your forum buddies watching.)

[Thumpalumpacus]

What? This is god. Why would a limitless power limit its self? Work with what he had is human, not creator.

Edit: Oops, point made earlier. Please continue.

Because He chose to give us free will rather than force us to think and act a certain way. I'm sure He could have if He wanted to, but He chose not to.

The fact that your story asserts eternal damnation for sin means that our alleged souls are held hostage.

This abrogates any free will we might have.

By your logic, the armed robber ought to be found innocent because his victim chose to surrender his wallet ... never mind the gun pointing at the victim's head.

[athrock]

Fucking apologists defending slavery.  You know why the people of Israel couldn't handle ending slavery?  Because they were fucking pieces of shit, and they justified their actions through God.   Because might makes right.  They never spoke to any gods.  They only made claims they couldn't back up.

Oh. 

Well, that certainly clears things up. 

Thanks for dropping by.

Coffee, anyone?

[athrock]

*Mould*********************************************

---

Pre-flood, share your drugs with me.

In another thread he argues that it was just a local flood.  Typical apologist, won't hesitate to speak out of both sides of his mouth.

You so suck at this.

Neither of the two posts in question contradict the other.