Atheist Forums Must Change

[Excited Penguin]

Why?

Mostly because it's an archaic mess under the hood, rife with terrible code.  Or, it was the last time I was forced to deal with it a few years ago.

It was first released in 2003 before PHP had real object oriented programming support.  It was merely supposed to be a blogging engine, and because of that the entire thing is based on The Loop, which is quite literally a global level loop (think for-loop or while-loop)  that runs the whole thing.  And for a blog, that kinda sorta makes sense.

Because of how easy it was to install and use, it quickly gained ubiquity, and with it a desire to expand it into other kinds of websites, like CMSes and e-commerce.  Problem is, rather than change the guts to something more logical, they kept The Loop (likely because the user base that could actually troubleshoot code and the various add-on and theme creators were familiar with it).  So, it became a bit of an inflexible, contorted mess.

The code itself was terrible, written before PHP coders really knew what they were doing.  Lots of mixing application logic with presentation logic and global variables (which are very bad things because they blow apart encapsulation and create tightly coupled code that relies on what are essentially magic values) everywhere.

Maybe it's changed since the last time I used it, but I refuse to touch it again.  I'm much happier creating truly custom sites with Symfony because I can do anything a client wants, especially with all of the packages available through Composer.  And I can do it faster than I would mucking around with WordPress.  Even on the front end, as Twig is more flexible than the weird three file thing WordPress has for layouts.

Didn't understand a thing

[KevinM1]

Usually, because writing your own is a PITA even with modern frameworks like Symfony, Laravel, etc., and the intellectual problem a forum represents has been solved by existing solutions.  New forum software, like, say, Vanilla, tends to simply be an iterative step made as a response to the perceived flaws in the older sofware.  

Basically, unless you're learning or making an attempt to make (for all intents and purposes) a better wheel, sticking with what's proven to work is your best bet.

Unless you're talking WordPress.  That shit needs to die in a fire.

You'll be picking on my Joomla next Kev. Hehe

Hey, nothing wrong with fast food sw is there?, if it does the job for the masses...

I haven't looked at Joomla in probably 10 years, back before I knew what I was doing. If I had to go prepackaged CMS, I'd probably go Drupal since it's based on Symfony (or, at least it's supposed to be... dunno if they actually completed the migration) since it's what I (potentially) know.

Fast food software makes sense when the client doesn't need anything special. My biggest problem with it is that oftentimes what the client wants and what's available via add-ons don't quite mesh. I figure that if I'm going to have to muck with the code under the hood in order to give the client what they want, I'd rather just write my own code than make a bunch of bandaid hacks. Been there, done that, didn't save me any time in the long run.

[KevinM1]

Mostly because it's an archaic mess under the hood, rife with terrible code.  Or, it was the last time I was forced to deal with it a few years ago.

It was first released in 2003 before PHP had real object oriented programming support.  It was merely supposed to be a blogging engine, and because of that the entire thing is based on The Loop, which is quite literally a global level loop (think for-loop or while-loop)  that runs the whole thing.  And for a blog, that kinda sorta makes sense.

Because of how easy it was to install and use, it quickly gained ubiquity, and with it a desire to expand it into other kinds of websites, like CMSes and e-commerce.  Problem is, rather than change the guts to something more logical, they kept The Loop (likely because the user base that could actually troubleshoot code and the various add-on and theme creators were familiar with it).  So, it became a bit of an inflexible, contorted mess.

The code itself was terrible, written before PHP coders really knew what they were doing.  Lots of mixing application logic with presentation logic and global variables (which are very bad things because they blow apart encapsulation and create tightly coupled code that relies on what are essentially magic values) everywhere.

Maybe it's changed since the last time I used it, but I refuse to touch it again.  I'm much happier creating truly custom sites with Symfony because I can do anything a client wants, especially with all of the packages available through Composer.  And I can do it faster than I would mucking around with WordPress.  Even on the front end, as Twig is more flexible than the weird three file thing WordPress has for layouts.

Didn't understand a thing

If you ever dive into PHP, you will.

[Marsellus Wallace]

How about this cool retro logo?

I actually like the logo, but a name change is something I'd be OK with. There's our site and the site of the same name, extending with .com

Right, but which one comes up first when you search "atheist forums" in Google? This one. ;-)

NO, me likey the first one in the OP 

[Excited Penguin]

How about this cool retro logo?




Right, but which one comes up first when you search "atheist forums" in Google? This one. ;-)

NO, me likey the first one in the OP 

It's like the more I look at it the better it gets.

[Iroscato]

Didn't we have a competition for a new logo months ago? What happened with that in the end?

[Brian37]

I suggest a picture of the FAB 4 in my Avatar...... What?

[drfuzzy]

Ok, admittedly I only used that subject as a way to get you in here.  Sorry.
I really only meant the tired old logo at the top of the page. 

It's time for the space theme to go. 
Yes, when I first designed it, it was refreshing and cool, but if I have to look at any more planets and stars I'm going to have to end myself.

Who's with me?

I propose this: 

Post your ideas here.

Maybe you can present a completed logo.  Awesome.

Maybe you simply have an idea or picture you could post with your idea.

Maybe you'll post something that just needs some tweaking. 

Clearly, I have not been able to give the staff an idea they're happy with.

Maybe we can all help.

oh and -

I will pledge $50 to Atheist Forums if we can get a cool new logo by the end of February.

Here's one idea I had that the staff clearly didn't care for. (I'm not upset by this in any way, but maybe it's a starting point.)

I really like this.  Any way to put the "atheist atom" around the central image?

[Excited Penguin]

Ok, admittedly I only used that subject as a way to get you in here.  Sorry.
I really only meant the tired old logo at the top of the page. 

It's time for the space theme to go. 
Yes, when I first designed it, it was refreshing and cool, but if I have to look at any more planets and stars I'm going to have to end myself.

Who's with me?

I propose this: 

Post your ideas here.

Maybe you can present a completed logo.  Awesome.

Maybe you simply have an idea or picture you could post with your idea.

Maybe you'll post something that just needs some tweaking. 

Clearly, I have not been able to give the staff an idea they're happy with.

Maybe we can all help.

oh and -

I will pledge $50 to Atheist Forums if we can get a cool new logo by the end of February.

Here's one idea I had that the staff clearly didn't care for. (I'm not upset by this in any way, but maybe it's a starting point.)

I really like this.  Any way to put the "atheist atom" around the central image?

That would be ugly. It's perfect as it is. (Well, better defined neural pathways in the background wouldn't hurt.)

[Whateverist]

How about with the motto: "It is better to light one neuron than to subjugate them all to the babble."