The problem of evil/suffering when it comes to children

[God of Mr. Hanky]

On the problem of evil, other species are much worse. When a bear is seeking a mate, and finds a female with cubs, he kills off the cubs because a bear doesn't want to just sow his genes - "There Can Be Only ONE!!!" is it's philosophy (actually, She-Bear won't mate with him while she has cubs to raise).

Why's that worse? Because our social structure says so? Bear's evolutionary system tells him to pass on his genes. If bearess doesn't want to mate with him because of previous offspring, it's only natural to get rid of it. Lions are the same, by the way. Nature's way. We aren't superior to that. It's only more hidden behind what we call civilization. But in some cases that layer breaks. Such as with that woman, who drowned her children because her lover didn't want them.

The point is not to say that we are better than animals - we aren't, so please don't go bringing the wrath of the animal-worshiping front down on me! Bears are not sociable animals, that is not how they survive, therefore they need not behave sociably like we do. The point is that violence, of the most horrific and unjust sort is common throughout nature. The human species is the only one which actually discusses reducing it's own violence among its own members, and against other species too. Therefore, the premise that we as a species are the one which is "fallen" and "sinful" is ridiculously misanthropic.

[abaris]

The point is that violence, of the most horrific and unjust sort is common throughout nature. The human species is the only one which actually discusses reducing it's own violence among its own members, and against other species too. Therefore, the premise that we as a species are the one which is "fallen" and "sinful" is ridiculously misanthropic.

The point is, we're not in any way superior. At heart, we're still chimps, defending our territory. Otherwise the world would be united and nationalism would be nothing but a sad memory.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

That's not true, the problem of evil was one the first things that made me start questioning the existence of god.

Individuals might, but it's the first thing apologists adress when debating atheists. It's also one of the least interesting points that can be made in favor of atheism. Because it's like finger pointing and the bible, which they always like to quote, presents a whole lot of evil as a test to certain individuals.

For me, by the way, the first question was, reality not adding up with the narrative.

How can you define reality when the only reality which you know is what you've been exposed to? I don't think everyone's situation, or thinking patterns have been exactly like yours. I find the problem of evil to be a very interesting issue with the theists, and like myself I expect others who respond to the problem of evil will be no less good at detecting the dishonesty of every apologist's response to this.

For me, the problem of evil and the weakness of "mysterious ways" and stupid "plan" apologetics is where I first began to ask questions. Well, to be honest it was so long ago I don't recall which questions came first, but it doesn't matter. There's the problem of evil, and there's the problem of logic, and it's useful to address them both.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

The point is that violence, of the most horrific and unjust sort is common throughout nature. The human species is the only one which actually discusses reducing it's own violence among its own members, and against other species too. Therefore, the premise that we as a species are the one which is "fallen" and "sinful" is ridiculously misanthropic.

The point is, we're not in any way superior. At heart, we're still chimps, defending our territory. Otherwise the world would be united and nationalism would be nothing but a sad memory.

OOOooooook!!!

[abaris]

For me, the problem of evil and the weakness of "mysterious ways" and stupid "plan" apologetics is where I first began to ask questions. Well, to be honest it was so long ago I don't recall which questions came first, but it doesn't matter. There's the problem of evil, and there's the problem of logic, and it's useful to address them both.

When I was a little child, the first question was based on something I was exposed to. Some priest said, god would take what's dearest to us, if we sin. So, there, that's the childish question, if an inherently evil god warrants worship.

But when I was growing up, the question was, how does that compute with what we know about earth? The answer was, it didn't. That's what ultimately led me to atheism.

Simplistic vs known facts.

[Pat Mustard]

[Godscreated]

[Godscreated]

You forgot one argument the christers love bringing out when it involves the childern. "God let him die because now he's in a better place basking in god's eternal love". Which is a whole other level of disgusting.

Aaand.... I was gazumped by GC. He's still wondering why I dismiss the sum total of his postings on these fora, and yet he manages to get his idiocy out and start waving it around.

Once again you show off your childish ignorant ways, ranting till it makes you feel good, read the post above this one and use it to help those children instead of setting on you lazy butt.

GC

[Godscreated]

All loving god my arse, you make me sick.

And I suppose you are not going to question intelligent design in the making of 'defaulty' people.

I do not believe in intelligent design, it has no place in God's creation. Why is it you and all other atheist think God should correct or stop man's cruelty to each other, we made this mess why shouldn't we take the responsibility to clean it up, even if evolution were true shouldn't it be our responsibility? God put each individual here for a purpose and if your'e was to help stop such evil then where have you been. I think you're like most complain and do nothing, this mentality leads to nothing being done and a situation getting worse. You do not know God so there's no way you could possibly understand His awesome love.

GC

[Mr.wizard]

And I suppose you are not going to question intelligent design in the making of 'defaulty' people.

I do not believe in intelligent design, it has no place in God's creation. Why is it you and all other atheist think God should correct or stop man's cruelty to each other, we made this mess why shouldn't we take the responsibility to clean it up, even if evolution were true shouldn't it be our responsibility? God put each individual here for a purpose and if your'e was to help stop such evil then where have you been. I think you're like most complain and do nothing, this mentality leads to nothing being done and a situation getting worse. You do not know God so there's no way you could possibly understand His awesome love.

GC

Wow, that is rich coming from a believer in a religion that praises vicarious redemption, talking to us about taking responsibility, pfft.