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February 24, 2016 at 10:58 am (This post was last modified: February 24, 2016 at 11:00 am by vorlon13.)
I haven't mentioned this for a while, but to this day, I remain amazed at how many of the men I know at (gay) 12 Steppers that have fathered children.
It's like 1/3 of them. I don't have a clear read if impairment of judgment from addiction makes them more 'prone' to inadvertently father offspring, or if some degree of bisexuality added to the addiction process gets them to 12 Steppers in numbers larger than their occurrence in the general population for some reason.
FWIW, the large number of gay friends I've lost to HIV didn't father too may kids (off the top of my head, maybe 4 or 5 kids by 2 of them out of 40), and of my still living gay friends not in 12 Steppers (the few that are left), I'm not recalling or aware of very many kids at all.
As for specifically addressing the topic as an 'outside observer', I'm surprised at the lack of societal pressure to force most/all men that have fathered children to play a part in their lives, financially and with their time/attention.
A contractor I know is $70,000 behind in his child support. How the fuck does that happen? How does that number go past, oh, let's say $1000, and he isn't waking up in jail every morning?
Also, governmental payments to support children, in my opinion, in almost all cases, should be distributed 50/50 between the bio mom and the bio dad. And either party failing to use that $$$ to support the kid(s) should be imprisoned, post haste, till the kid turns 18, or the parent has an attitude shift.
But like I said, I'm an outside observer, and the hetero-world can set their own rules, but to me, the rules I'm seeing look and seem really weird considering most everyone involved from parents to lawmakers and judicial types, say the kids come first, whatever is in their best interest, etc. From my vantage, I sure don't see that. I don't see that at all . . . . .
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
(February 24, 2016 at 10:58 am)vorlon13 Wrote: But like I said, I'm an outside observer, and the hetero-world can set their own rules, but to me, the rules I'm seeing look and seem really weird considering most everyone involved from parents to lawmakers and judicial types, say the kids come first, whatever is in their best interest, etc. From my vantage, I sure don't see that. I don't see that at all . . . . .
I should probably make the same disclaimer as a non-breeding hetero. I've got no dog in the fight, but I agree with these sentiments.
Kids are supposed to come first. But when parents can't agree and they decide to let the courts get involved, the kids get put on the backburner while the adults are forced to deal with the decisions handed down by a person who spends no quality time with either side and doesn't ever really get the entire truth out of either side. Compile that with the increasing corruption that's running rampant in the court system now and you have one hell of a mess to deal with.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
I haven't mentioned this for a while, but to this day, I remain amazed at how many of the men I know at (gay) 12 Steppers that have fathered children.
It's like 1/3 of them. I don't have a clear read if impairment of judgment from addiction makes them more 'prone' to inadvertently father offspring, or if some degree of bisexuality added to the addiction process gets them to 12 Steppers in numbers larger than their occurrence in the general population for some reason.
FWIW, the large number of gay friends I've lost to HIV didn't father too may kids (off the top of my head, maybe 4 or 5 kids by 2 of them out of 40), and of my still living gay friends not in 12 Steppers (the few that are left), I'm not recalling or aware of very many kids at all.
As for specifically addressing the topic as an 'outside observer', I'm surprised at the lack of societal pressure to force most/all men that have fathered children to play a part in their lives, financially and with their time/attention.
A contractor I know is $70,000 behind in his child support. How the fuck does that happen? How does that number go past, oh, let's say $1000, and he isn't waking up in jail every morning?
Also, governmental payments to support children, in my opinion, in almost all cases, should be distributed 50/50 between the bio mom and the bio dad. And either party failing to use that $$$ to support the kid(s) should be imprisoned, post haste, till the kid turns 18, or the parent has an attitude shift.
But like I said, I'm an outside observer, and the hetero-world can set their own rules, but to me, the rules I'm seeing look and seem really weird considering most everyone involved from parents to lawmakers and judicial types, say the kids come first, whatever is in their best interest, etc. From my vantage, I sure don't see that. I don't see that at all . . . . .
In the UK, the opposite is true, sometimes fatally so. An organisation called the Child Support Agency was set up to track down 'absent' fathers and force them to pay maintenance. It pursued this end so intensively that it drove some fathers to suicide. It's since been disbanded and is being replaced by the Child Maintenance Service, the transition is due to complete next year. Its mandate includes less compulsion to pursue claims and will be driven mainly by request from the other parent.
In my opinion, a woman should not be forced to carry a child and give birth just because the man wants her to, alternatively a woman should not be allowed to carry a child and give birth if the man refuses to be a father.
A child should be born only if both the man and woman consents to its birth, it's only fair to the child and the other two parties involved.
(February 24, 2016 at 12:12 pm)pool the great Wrote: In my opinion, a woman should not be forced to carry a child and give birth just because the man wants her to, alternatively a woman should not be allowed to carry a child and give birth if the man refuses to be a father.
A child should be born only if both the man and woman consents to its birth, it's only fair to the child and the other two parties involved.
If the methods of accomplishing that weren't at all invasive and potentially dangerous to the woman I might agree. But that isn't the case. By default, the decision goes to the one whose personal well being is at stake.
I read up on abortions and it seems that less than 1 out of 100,000 women that undergoes medically administered abortions die making abortions less riskier than giving birth...
(February 24, 2016 at 12:12 pm)pool the great Wrote: In my opinion, a woman should not be forced to carry a child and give birth just because the man wants her to, alternatively a woman should not be allowed to carry a child and give birth if the man refuses to be a father.
A child should be born only if both the man and woman consents to its birth, it's only fair to the child and the other two parties involved.
Whoah... what? You'd force an abortion on the potential father's say so?
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(February 24, 2016 at 12:12 pm)pool the great Wrote: In my opinion, a woman should not be forced to carry a child and give birth just because the man wants her to, alternatively a woman should not be allowed to carry a child and give birth if the man refuses to be a father.
A child should be born only if both the man and woman consents to its birth, it's only fair to the child and the other two parties involved.
What? You feel a single parent household is so awful that the child shouldn't be born at all? Now THAT is extreme. Plenty of children are born into two-parent families and suffer abuse and neglect. I'm wondering if you could explain your feelings a little better, pool?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
I think it's best for a child to be born into this world with both its father and mother consenting to it's birth.. If atleast one of the parent goes "no i dont want to",its not fair to the child to be forced into this world...i guess im vouching more for the child in that regard..
