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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:06 pm
I can't discuss this any more as it's making me feel ill.
I'm afraid this is a perfect example of an otherwise nice person saying some terrifying things in order to reconcile religion with reality.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: March 7, 2016 at 5:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"Otherwise nice", lol....? You mean other than her firmly held and foundational beliefs about the world and everything in it......? Other than that. Forgive me for suggesting that this "other than" business is a fiction that people consoles themselves with when faced with utter depravity.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:15 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 5:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (March 7, 2016 at 4:53 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: God could have prevented rape by designing humans to mate seasonally and according to pheromonal triggers as many organisms do, while lacking a sex drive outside of these times.
Very true, and I have thought about this myself before too. When I was in my early teen years, I was convinced God made a mistake by designing sex. I thought, if sex didn't exist, neither would rape, abortion, over population, unwanted pregnancies...and even things like parent on child abuse and poverty would probably decrease by a landslide.
Now a days, I can put things into perspective better:
Here I am, one little human person out of an entire universe, occupying it for a tiny fraction of time, and I think I know better than God? The being who created everything and everyone? The being who can see the whole universe all at once, past, present, and future? Does it make any logical sense to think I know better than He does?
...And then of course, logically follows the argument of whether or not the God I believe in actually does exist. I have my reasons for believing He does, and the video on the OP explains a small part of it, but the major part of it is the supernatural experience I had.
Who does your god think it is to believe it knows better than my unicorn?
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:18 pm
(This post was last modified: March 7, 2016 at 5:19 pm by robvalue.)
She's nice when the subject is something other than religion, and she discusses religion respectfully. But yes, I agree it is a highly toxic world view for anyone to hold, I find the whole of Christianity sickening. It is leading her to say things I just don't think she would ever say had she not been religious. Just my opinion.
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My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:19 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 5:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (March 7, 2016 at 4:53 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: God could have prevented rape by designing humans to mate seasonally and according to pheromonal triggers as many organisms do, while lacking a sex drive outside of these times.
Very true, and I have thought about this myself before too. When I was in my early teen years, I was convinced God made a mistake by designing sex. I thought, if sex didn't exist, neither would rape, abortion, over population, unwanted pregnancies...and even things like parent on child abuse and poverty would probably decrease by a landslide.
Now a days, I can put things into perspective better:
Here I am, one little human person out of an entire universe, occupying it for a tiny fraction of time, and I think I know better than God? The being who created everything and everyone? The being who can see the whole universe all at once, past, present, and future? Does it make any logical sense to think I know better than He does?
...And then of course, logically follows the argument of whether or not the God I believe in actually does exist. I have my reasons for believing He does, and the video on the OP explains a small part of it, but the major part of it is the supernatural experience I had.
Yes, you do know better than God. That's the whole point. When you hit a point where your own empathy and common sense clash with what you think your God is teaching you, the LOGICAL thing to do is let go of the faulty belief. The ILLOGICAL thing to do is say, "well, I'm pretty sure rape is horrible, but who am I to question God?" That is pure abandonment of all reason. It's like one big, massive appeal to the shittiest authority that has ever existed. You DO know better than God, CL!
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:32 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 4:54 pm)The_Empress Wrote: (March 7, 2016 at 4:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Having free will doesn't mean we'll accomplish everything we try to do, per se. Someone can kidnap me and I'll fight back as much as I can, but that doesn't mean I won't succeed in being able to escape. This doesn't mean I don't have free will.
I don't see how that answers my question. Did God create humans who are able to remove the free will of others or not? If so, he, even if by extension, regularly removes free will.
Sorry, I didn't realize it was a question.
Yes, when 2 people have sex God does not magically stop nature from happening and from a person being conceived and then born, as they otherwise would have. Even if He knows that person will grow up to do bad things, like take away another person's rights, He does not intervene. I word it like that is to show that I don't see God as being a wizard with a magic wand who "creates" people just like that. He does not micromanage our world. He allows nature to take its course, as I have explained.
Yes, God gave everyone free will. Some people choose to use their free will to hinder another person's free will at a particular time. Do I blame God for that, since He allows nature to take its course and thus allowed a person to be born, knowing that person would do something awful? No, I don't. I think He gave us brains and an inherent understanding of good and evil. I think we are all fully and solely responsible for our own actions. I guess I don't see it the same way as you... that God took away someone's free will because He created someone who did.
I can't answer why God thought it would be ultimately better to let nature take its coarse. But I'm ok with that. I'm not God.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:36 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 5:06 pm)robvalue Wrote: I can't discuss this any more as it's making me feel ill.
I'm afraid this is a perfect example of an otherwise nice person saying some terrifying things in order to reconcile religion with reality.
What terrifying thing did I say that makes me not nice?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:39 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 5:19 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (March 7, 2016 at 5:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Very true, and I have thought about this myself before too. When I was in my early teen years, I was convinced God made a mistake by designing sex. I thought, if sex didn't exist, neither would rape, abortion, over population, unwanted pregnancies...and even things like parent on child abuse and poverty would probably decrease by a landslide.
Now a days, I can put things into perspective better:
Here I am, one little human person out of an entire universe, occupying it for a tiny fraction of time, and I think I know better than God? The being who created everything and everyone? The being who can see the whole universe all at once, past, present, and future? Does it make any logical sense to think I know better than He does?
...And then of course, logically follows the argument of whether or not the God I believe in actually does exist. I have my reasons for believing He does, and the video on the OP explains a small part of it, but the major part of it is the supernatural experience I had.
Yes, you do know better than God. That's the whole point. When you hit a point where your own empathy and common sense clash with what you think your God is teaching you, the LOGICAL thing to do is let go of the faulty belief. The ILLOGICAL thing to do is say, "well, I'm pretty sure rape is horrible, but who am I to question God?" That is pure abandonment of all reason. It's like one big, massive appeal to the shittiest authority that has ever existed. You DO know better than God, CL!
(My bold)
Oh my goodness, please don't misunderstand. RAPE IS HORRIBLE!!! It absolutely is horrible and evil.
I'm horrified that you think I'm saying otherwise.  I'm sorry if I'm causing confusion and not making myself clear!!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:48 pm
(This post was last modified: March 7, 2016 at 5:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Then perhaps you should stop prevaricating over free will anytime you respond to peoples comments regarding that thing you think is horrible? God does less while in a position to do much more than any person on these boards, for absolutely no reason, with absolutely no excuse, and this from the author of morality, according -to you-. A rapists bodily autonomy is worth more than whatever the victim has lost, more than whatever they suffer, according -to you-. Rape is "made right"...somehow, according -to you-. Or maybe you just fear blasphemy...you'd prefer to toe a terrible line regarding rape rather than imperil your own immortal soul or appear weak in faith in front of the crowd by speaking ill against the man upstairs?
You're making yourself exceedingly clear. Who's confused? Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 7, 2016 at 5:54 pm
(March 7, 2016 at 5:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Then perhaps you should stop prevaricating over free will anytime you respond to peoples comments regarding that thing you think is horrible? God does less while in a position to do much more than any person on these boards, for absolutely no reason, with absolutely no excuse, and this from the author of morality, according -to you-. A rapists bodily autonomy is worth more than whatever the victim has lost, more than whatever they suffer, according -to you-. Rape is "made right"...somehow, according -to you-.
You're making yourself exceedingly clear. Who's confused?
Yes, exactly this. It's rape apologetics.
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