My views on objective morality

[Catholic_Lady]

I have no idea. The only people whom we claim to know the fate of are Saints - who we believe are in Heaven. Other than that, we don't know who is in the state of Hell or Heaven, since we cannot know what was in a person's heart.

That's a cop out.  Let's say a witch-hunter considered himself a good and loving Christian, and that he took his witch-interviewing duties seriously.  Let's say that in his love, he followed the proscribed methods of turning a witch to confession and to salvation (talking about torture, here).  He was in a state of total peace, confident because of papal decrees or agreements made at church, that he was doing the work of God.

Perfectly calm mind and openly peaceful heart, committing torture.

Heaven or not?  Because by your statements, it would seem that HE is going to Heaven, and the "witch," who would be a terrified, lonely old woman, cast out of society, blamed and tortured, and then told she must share the religious beliefs of her attackers, and "confess" sins she never committed, would be in the wrong mental condition to be allowed into Heaven.

I mean, we can trot out examples post after post until the cows come home, and you can keep saying "I don't know, I don't know."  But if you don't know anything, then from whence comes your belief?

See, here's my problem with you (as I've already mentioned): you seem to be a generally good person, and I think you are projecting your OWN goodness onto the universe, and onto your God idea.  But you cannot produce logical reasons for your beliefs, nor evidence that they correct, nor good reasons for believing a good God exists, nor evidence for beliefing a good God exists.

So why the heck to you hold the beliefs that you do?  There's no reason for it that I can see except that you are a member of a Catholic culture.

It's not a cop out at all. I can't judge the heart and soul of another person because I can't see those things. 

I'm not trying to produce evidence. Just answering your questions about what my views are.

[Catholic_Lady]

So why the heck to you hold the beliefs that you do?  There's no reason for it that I can see except that you are a member of a Catholic culture.

Of course there's "no reason that you can see." You don't know me and have barely even interacted with me on an online forum.

The OP is one (smaller) reason why I believe. There are others. The main reason that sealed the deal, if you will, is a supernatural experience I had.

[GrandizerII]

Really???

Ok, must be difference experiences then as Christian.

Here's a verse in the Bible to illustrate my point:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...+John+3:10

Really, really. Have never heard of that as a Christian belief among anyone before you mentioned it in your post.

Well, the reason for my surprise is because Catholics themselves have told me that without baptism you can't be a child of God. So this isn't just restricted to Protestants/Evangelicals.

[GrandizerII]

So why the heck to you hold the beliefs that you do?  There's no reason for it that I can see except that you are a member of a Catholic culture.

The OP is one (smaller) reason why I believe. There are others. The main reason that sealed the deal, if you will, is a supernatural experience I had.

No, you interpreted it as a supernatural experience. Anomalies are not supernatural by default.

[pocaracas]

The OP is one (smaller) reason why I believe. There are others. The main reason that sealed the deal, if you will, is a supernatural experience I had.

If it's not too much to ask, do tell what that supernatural experience was, please.
(Do it by pm if you prefer)

[Thumpalumpacus]

I said it can be lessened. I didn't say it was entirely mitigated, all the time, for every case. Every case is different. Furthermore, a predisposition to do bad things doesn't mean a person will do bad things. There are many people who were abused and neglected as children and never grow up to rape and kill others. It's not automatic, and people still have a choice.

How do you reconcile free will and omnipotence? Be specific.

[SteelCurtain]

How do you reconcile free will and omnipotence? Be specific.

This will be similar to question #3 on your Apologetics Midterm.

[Mystic]

You did well Catholic Lady, it's red herring after another. You brought up the topic of why morality and God go together. They turned into bible and Catholic church debate, then into the problem of evil debate (theodicy debate), then now want to talk about your personal belief as well as the issue of knowledge of the future with free-will (I believe that a lot of the future is not known to God because of the nature of free-will, and God is testing us to know us and so the future is not all written in stone). I would avoid the topic.

Bring it back to the original issue. Does morality and God go together such that both prove one another? (double implications of one another?)

[LadyForCamus]

No.

[robvalue]

Nope.

Are things good because god says so? If they are, it's arbitrary. "Good" and "evil" mean nothing outside of his proclamations.

Are things God says are good actually good in of themselves? If so, God is irrelevant.

Theists endlessly try and equivocate the two.