Ethics Project

[Minimalist]

Remember you are dealing with assholes and an ancient book of superstitious bullshit.

Then consult this and have some fun with them.

http://www.funny2.com/pregnantmen.htm

If MEN Got Pregnant

There'd be an abortion clinic on every street corner.

[brewer]

Remember you are dealing with assholes and an ancient book of superstitious bullshit.

Then consult this and have some fun with them.

http://www.funny2.com/pregnantmen.htm

If MEN Got Pregnant

There'd be an abortion clinic on every street corner.

And birth control vastly exceeding more than just a piece of latex! Or an aspirin in the shoe. (hehe)

[Heat]

So, I go to a Christian school. I take Ethics, and was just assigned a project, research topic, to give a formal essay on ethical controversial issues in modern day society.

There was a giant list. Literally almost every controversial topic you could think of.


I chose; Abortion.

Now, as an atheist, I have no problem pointing out flaws in others reasoning, and I have no problem going against the status quo in the class room. That's why I picked it. The vast majority of my class sees this as a settled discussion, in fact one girl questioned me as to why I didn't pick one that had more of a "debate" aspect to it. They pretty much all see it as a murder, that should be outlawed.

Now, evidently from reading that you can tell I don't have a problem with abortion as long as it's done under proper medical care and all the requirements are met. I'm pro choice.


My question for you guys is what advice can you give me on this subject? Whether that be ways to convince them, or points, comparisons, facts, etc. What's your advice for me?

Murder is the unlawful killing of a person.  Is a fetus a person?

A fertilized egg (one cell) does not fit any reasonable definition of person.
Neither does it after dividing once (2 cells).
Nor after it divides again (4 cells).
And so on.

When is the fetus even remotely "a person"?
There isn't a well-developed brain and nervous system until at least 6 months.  
One could reasonably argue that that qualifies as "a person".

You're missing the fact that they aren't interested in the technical specifications. Most of them know that an early-developing fetus can't feel pain, and isn't a person scientifically. However, the reason they see it as murder is because the vast majority of them believe all persons are designed by god. So if an unborn fetus dies, they see it as murdering one of "god's children". That's why they debate stem cell research, because a lot of them will argue that the stem cell of a baby is actually a baby, or was designed to live by god, and using it for research, or not letting it live, is murder.

All of this will seem very fucking crazy to a lot of you. It does to me don't get me wrong. However, instead of just saying "That's crazy" try to understand where they are coming from, wrong as they may be, this is a deeply held belief of a lot of Christians.

I'm saying this, because it pertains to how I will address this project, and maybe even what advice you guys could add. It's important to know what my audience's preconceived notions are going in to this.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle


p.s.

If I were to post my draft on this forum while i'm working on the project, would anyone be interested in reading it over? Giving suggestions, like to fix grammatical errors, but more along the lines of like maybe some points you think I left out, or key ideas I should add?

I largely like being creative, and writing my own way. Whenever I write creatively for English I hardly look at the format rules, I hate being constricted to doing specific things. However, knowing that in this circumstance I am going against the status quo, and might upset people, I think maybe i'd appreciate a second opinion if anyone's willing sometime in the future when writing.

If not, no worries though.

[Angrboda]

My advice, if you're pro-choice, play devil's advocate. You'll learn more and be better perceived.

[bennyboy]

So, I go to a Christian school. I take Ethics, and was just assigned a project, research topic, to give a formal essay on ethical controversial issues in modern day society.

There was a giant list. Literally almost every controversial topic you could think of.


I chose; Abortion.

Now, as an atheist, I have no problem pointing out flaws in others reasoning, and I have no problem going against the status quo in the class room. That's why I picked it. The vast majority of my class sees this as a settled discussion, in fact one girl questioned me as to why I didn't pick one that had more of a "debate" aspect to it. They pretty much all see it as a murder, that should be outlawed.

Now, evidently from reading that you can tell I don't have a problem with abortion as long as it's done under proper medical care and all the requirements are met. I'm pro choice.


My question for you guys is what advice can you give me on this subject? Whether that be ways to convince them, or points, comparisons, facts, etc. What's your advice for me?

You have two choices:
1)  Say you're pro choice.
2)  Get more than a C-.

[robvalue]

I think you should post it here Heat. I'd be interested to read it and offer feedback.

I agree with you, trying to understand their position is really important. I've tried to do that in my time on the forum, and I feel I've come to more of an understanding of the theist position. I'll never totally understand it, but I at least recognize what is going on now somewhat. Acknowledging and understanding their position is bound to make more of an impact.

This probably wouldn't go down too well, a topic I made a while back here:

If you're part of a religion such as Christianity or Islam, then aborting your children before they are born (or killing them just after they are born) is the most loving thing you can do for them.

First of all, you eliminate the risk that they might end up in hell by failing to follow the rules correctly.

Second, they go straight to heaven without any of the pain or heartache this life brings. They begin infinite happiness right away.

And third, it's insurance against them picking the wrong religion.

Even if we pretend there is definitely a god, and it's definitely either Yahweh or Allah, that means every Christian and Muslim is taking a risk. If they don't kill their baby, it might not go to heaven by picking wrong. You may be in the wrong religion and it may copy you, or you may be in the right religion and it may stray to another.

By killing it, the God can't say it picked wrong, so must send it to heaven! Even if you've picked wrong, in which case you're going to hell regardless, you save your child the same fate.

The ultimate act of love! So how can you object, and why don't you do it? Is it because you're hedging your bets in case the whole thing is actually made up?

[brewer]

Heat, post it here. You've got nothing to loose and the potential for gain.

Attack their beliefs, not their religion.

[Ben Davis]

Please do post it. I'd love to read your arguments and understand your approach. Plus I'm a mean proof reader!

[The Grand Nudger]

Im with you Jorg, but I don't know if he'd be able to meet the word count by playing devils advocate on this issue.

"God said no".