RE: Free will and humans
March 16, 2016 at 8:21 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2016 at 8:21 am by ErGingerbreadMandude.)
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Free will and humans
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 RE: Free will and humans
March 16, 2016 at 8:51 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2016 at 8:51 am by robvalue.)
Ah, okay good.
Would you care to share it? Feel free to send me a private message.
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Now that you've mentioned it. I did say that one would have to be able to produce an algorithm that works in order to have free will. By that definition everyone should be able to form algorithms to solve problems related with physics like k. Nah, you just got to form an algorithm to have free will.
 (March 16, 2016 at 5:06 am)pool the great Wrote:(March 16, 2016 at 12:26 am)IATIA Wrote: IMHO, no. For free will to be true and effective, it must be external to the physiology of the body else all is controlled by the bio-chemical reactions and neuron activity. If your free will is not controlled by the body, where did it come from? god? How did free will evolve if it is not part of the body's physiology? A bio-chemical reaction will precede a thought or action. How would free will initiate this condition if the condition is required first?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy  (March 16, 2016 at 11:36 am)IATIA Wrote: A bio-chemical reaction will precede a thought or action. How would free will initiate this condition if the condition is required first? Well, it will precede a thought/action if you believe in determinism. If you're going for free will, then the chemistry follows after your thought/action. RE: Free will and humans
March 16, 2016 at 6:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2016 at 6:26 pm by IATIA.)
(March 16, 2016 at 3:55 pm)truth_seeker Wrote:(March 16, 2016 at 11:36 am)IATIA Wrote: A bio-chemical reaction will precede a thought or action. How would free will initiate this condition if the condition is required first? But free will is a thought, a decision that must be initiated. Are you suggesting qualia has a life of it's own separate from the body or that there is a supernatural explanation?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy RE: Free will and humans
March 17, 2016 at 10:00 am
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2016 at 10:12 am by truth_seeker.)
(March 16, 2016 at 6:25 pm)IATIA Wrote:(March 16, 2016 at 3:55 pm)truth_seeker Wrote: Well, it will precede a thought/action if you believe in determinism. What I'm saying is that free will, if one believes it exists, must be supernatural. Why? because nature (atoms, molecules, etc) can be precisely described by mathematical equations and predicted and plotted. This can be clarified when we speak of the word "naturally". It means something that follows a certain known pattern. If it consistently does not follow any pattern, then it is either random or not-natural. And since it is clear that human consciousness is not random at all, then it must be not-natural. supernatural. Example: I give you two apples, one green and one red. Which one would you eat? People who don't believe in freewill will tell you its simple. We'll do an experiment, recruit 100,000 people, do a statistics on their choices, and then come with a prediction. They will then conclude "there, I have just proved to you that I can model human choice". That's absurd. Because the person who was given the choice between green and red can simply sit there doing nothing, or play ping pong with the apples, or unzip their pants and jerk off, or throw the apples at the experimenter, or starts opera singing ... that's free will.
An amoebae will choose food over poison. Animals will choose preferred foods. So, choice does not mandate free will.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy RE: Free will and humans
March 17, 2016 at 10:32 am
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2016 at 10:34 am by truth_seeker.)
(March 17, 2016 at 10:23 am)IATIA Wrote: An amoebae will choose food over poison. Animals will choose preferred foods. So, choice does not mandate free will. An amoebae will "choose" food over poison. A monkey will also "choose" food over poison. Their choice is predictable to a very large degree. Can you really call it a choice? Predictably consistent action is not choice. But a human being can (and has done so) choose poison over food. If that's not free will, I don't know what is.
An isolated case of brain malfunction.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy |
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