What do you think of this passage?

[truth_seeker]

The thing with Pascal's Wager is that if you die and find yourself face-to-face with Odin he may be really pissed that you didn't die with your sword in your hand.

Then what are you going to do?

Oh wow, I was not aware there was such a thing as Pascal's Wager :  ... I apologize for my ignorance. (Sort of a relief, though, to reach a conclusion independently, only to find that my thought experiment has been replicated by a scientist )

Can you give me a claim from Odin that he is going to expose me to eternal punishment?

[KevinM1]

Maybe this way of looking at it will help truth_seeker:

As an atheist, according to many (most?) religions, I'm due for some kind of eternal torture or another after I die. So why aren't I sweating it? Because there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that punishment actually exists.

Now, one religion out of the million or so on this planet may have actually gotten it right. I may be utterly fucked (and not in the good way) after I die. But, I'm not going to live my life in fear of that. Why? Because any deity that would eternally punish someone for unbelief - not harming or killing someone else, just merely not believing that this deity actually exists - doesn't deserve my worship or praise anyway. Fuck it in the eyeball with a rusty spoon if that is the case (which I'm utterly confident it's not).

Believing out of fear is how religions are designed. Truly, the only differences between a religion and a cult are scope and inertia. Don't fall into the trap if you can help it.

[Minimalist]

In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain"[1]) is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those who die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök. Before the hall stands the golden tree Glasir, and the hall's ceiling is thatched with golden shields. Various creatures live around Valhalla, such as the stag Eikþyrnir and the goat Heiðrún, both described as standing atop Valhalla and consuming the foliage of the tree Læraðr.

Lots of fighting and fucking and feasting in Valhalla.  Make sure you find a battle to die in because you don't want to miss it.  Seems to beat the hell out of any heaven envisioned by xitans or muslims.

[truth_seeker]

Maybe this way of looking at it will help truth_seeker:

As an atheist, according to many (most?) religions, I'm due for some kind of eternal torture or another after I die.  So why aren't I sweating it?  Because there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that punishment actually exists.

Now, one religion out of the million or so on this planet may have actually gotten it right.  I may be utterly fucked (and not in the good way) after I die.  But, I'm not going to live my life in fear of that.  Why?  Because any deity that would eternally punish someone for unbelief - not harming or killing someone else, just merely not believing that this deity actually exists - doesn't deserve my worship or praise anyway.  Fuck it in the eyeball with a rusty spoon if that is the case (which I'm utterly confident it's not).

Believing out of fear is how religions are designed.  Truly, the only differences between a religion and a cult are scope and inertia.  Don't fall into the trap if you can help it.

I think we are confusing the logical vs the pragmatic ...
My argument is purely pragmatic.

KevinM1

As an atheist, according to many (most?) religions, I'm due for some kind of eternal torture or another after I die.

Not really ... I'm not aware of another god that is as strict and fierce with punishments (if any) as this one. So a pragmatic choice better be on this tough one's side if you ask me

Besides, in addition to the benefit of eliminating the huge cost/risk of eternal punishment, the system in itself isn't so terrible of a deal either ... basically a code of ethics, law, good deeds etc ...

What concern hath God for your punishment if ye are thankful and believers? God is ever the All-Appreciative, All-Knowing

We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance of Justice, so that mankind may observe right measure;

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in God hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. And God is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

Is there evidence? Maybe not.
Is there proof? Maybe not.
Can all of this be a big fat lie? Possible.

Is the cost/benefit analysis sound and pragmatic? i.e. would this save my ass IN CASE it actually happens? Looks like it. Better safe than sorry.

[Nay_Sayer]

Smells like TC

[truth_seeker]

In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain"[1]) is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those who die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök. Before the hall stands the golden tree Glasir, and the hall's ceiling is thatched with golden shields. Various creatures live around Valhalla, such as the stag Eikþyrnir and the goat Heiðrún, both described as standing atop Valhalla and consuming the foliage of the tree Læraðr.

Lots of fighting and fucking and feasting in Valhalla.  Make sure you find a battle to die in because you don't want to miss it.  Seems to beat the hell out of any heaven envisioned by xitans or muslims.

Wow, I'm intrigued! ... is this Odin's request from me? is this from his book or something?

[Chas]

@Kevin, @Boru

Yes, I know. You guys are saying exactly what's on my mind
But the thing is, there has been no corroborated documented historical **claim** from Mr. Unicorn or Mr. Alien, so the risk is practically zero for all practical purposes.

But this particular god who claims to be the creator of the universe has been pretty consistent in his warnings over long historical periods ... hence the risk is more practical and real, catch my drift?

You'll need to provide actual evidence of authorship.

But you cannot.

[Chas]

That's still utterly illogical.  That god's threats are static.  They've remained unchanged for thousands of years.  There's also nothing to verify that this god is actually behind those threats, or that, again, this god actually exists.

What does it matter that the same message has been repeated over and over?  Repetition doesn't lend reality to fiction.

Again: provide evidence.  If you have none for your god, that means you also have none for your hell.

I completely agree. It is illogical and there is no evidence. 100% agree

My entire discussion was only based on evaluating the high risk involved, that's all. As in **if** it turns out to be true, then I'm f*cked. And it would be a high risk gamble.

I guess I can clarify what I'm trying to say in this fashion:
the risk that Mr. Unicorn well own my a$$ in hell is pretty low (1%??) because I didn't find consistent corroborated claims from Mr. Unicorn telling me about it.
but the risk that this particular god has the capacity to deliver on these warnings seems a bit higher (20%? 50%?) due to the presence of many consistent corroborated claims

SO ... I'm not saying believing is right or wrong.

I'm only saying the risk is pretty steep

The risk is negligible.  Your statement that it is 50/50 is ridiculous given that there is no evidence for any gods.

[truth_seeker]

In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain"[1]) is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those who die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök. Before the hall stands the golden tree Glasir, and the hall's ceiling is thatched with golden shields. Various creatures live around Valhalla, such as the stag Eikþyrnir and the goat Heiðrún, both described as standing atop Valhalla and consuming the foliage of the tree Læraðr.

Lots of fighting and fucking and feasting in Valhalla.  Make sure you find a battle to die in because you don't want to miss it.  Seems to beat the hell out of any heaven envisioned by xitans or muslims.

Perhaps I'm missing something !
I don't see any warnings of punishment or anything? so what's the risk here?
my entire argument was based on the cost/risk aversion of eternal *punishment*

[truth_seeker]

In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain"[1]) is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those who die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök. Before the hall stands the golden tree Glasir, and the hall's ceiling is thatched with golden shields. Various creatures live around Valhalla, such as the stag Eikþyrnir and the goat Heiðrún, both described as standing atop Valhalla and consuming the foliage of the tree Læraðr.

Lots of fighting and fucking and feasting in Valhalla.  Make sure you find a battle to die in because you don't want to miss it.  Seems to beat the hell out of any heaven envisioned by xitans or muslims.

I don't see any warnings of punishment or anything? so what's the risk here?
my entire argument was based on the cost/risk aversion of eternal *punishment*


Besides, in addition to the benefit of eliminating the huge cost/risk of eternal punishment, the system in itself isn't so terrible of a deal either ... basically a code of ethics, law, good deeds etc ...

What concern hath God for your punishment if ye are thankful and believers? God is ever the All-Appreciative, All-Knowing

We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance of Justice, so that mankind may observe right measure;

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in God hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. And God is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

Is there evidence? Maybe not.
Is there proof? Maybe not.
Can all of this be a big fat lie? Possible.

Is the cost/benefit analysis sound and pragmatic? Looks like it.
Would this save my ass IN CASE it actually happens? Looks like it. Better safe than sorry.