Bernie Sanders - Hope?

[Thumpalumpacus]

I believe the term you're looking for is "biting off one's nose to spite one's own face."

I can't bring myself to vote for Clinton, but I damned sure will vote against Trump. If the race is close, that means I'll punch "Hilary" on the ballot and repent at leisure. If she's winning by a comfortable margin, I'll do as I normally do and vote Libertarian -- Gary Johnson again, this year.

That's how I felt voting for Obama. I did so twice, even though I had to hold my nose to do so. It's not that I don't like and admire the man - I do - but I like a stronger person as President because it's a brutal job. The oval office isn't a place for someone who is too nice, IMO. I want someone who's heart is in the right place but who is fully capable of playing hardball when needed. That's Hillary, IMO.

I agree that Obummer has soft-pedaled his agenda to such an extent that he hobbled his own possibilities.

The difference between a good and a great politician is the ability to paint one's opponents into a corner of your own choosing so that you can control the room, the narrative. As smart as Obama is, he seems to lack the killer instinct.

[Heat]

I believe the term you're looking for is "biting off one's nose to spite one's own face."

I can't bring myself to vote for Clinton, but I damned sure will vote against Trump. If the race is close, that means I'll punch "Hilary" on the ballot and repent at leisure. If she's winning by a comfortable margin, I'll do as I normally do and vote Libertarian -- Gary Johnson again, this year.

That's how I felt voting for Obama. I did so twice, even though I had to hold my nose to do so. It's not that I don't like and admire the man - I do - but I like a stronger person as President because it's a brutal job. The oval office isn't a place for someone who is too nice, IMO. I want someone who's heart is in the right place but who is fully capable of playing hardball when needed. That's Hillary, IMO.

Hillary, who says things simply because they are politically convenient is stronger than Bernie, the person who took/is taking on the entire establishment as a social democrat.

[SteelCurtain]

That's how I felt voting for Obama. I did so twice, even though I had to hold my nose to do so. It's not that I don't like and admire the man - I do - but I like a stronger person as President because it's a brutal job. The oval office isn't a place for someone who is too nice, IMO. I want someone who's heart is in the right place but who is fully capable of playing hardball when needed. That's Hillary, IMO.

Hillary, who says things simply because they are politically convenient is stronger than Bernie, the person who took/is taking on the entire establishment as a social democrat.

Look, as much as Hillary does nothing for me, it's dumb to paint her as terrible for being a politician. We are spoiled because Bernie Sanders has been saying things for 40 years that have been unpopular until now. He is the man for the moment. But it does speak to his effectiveness at garnering an audience that he has been saying these things for 40 years and no one's been listening. Part of being a strong politician is being opportunistic. It may not endear you to the die hards, but it is part of the system of representative democracy, where you're supposed to speak for the people who elected you and not your own personal politics.

Hillary does not have the greatest track record for sticking to her own principles and instead riding the political wave, but every president in the history of this country could have been said to do that, to compromise and get shit done.

Hillary doesn't excite me in the least, but she doesn't scare me. I will add my number to anyone who has the chance to keep Trump out of the White House.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

[Heat]

Hillary, who says things simply because they are politically convenient is stronger than Bernie, the person who took/is taking on the entire establishment as a social democrat.

Look, as much as Hillary does nothing for me, it's dumb to paint her as terrible for being a politician. We are spoiled because Bernie Sanders has been saying things for 40 years that have been unpopular until now. He is the man for the moment. But it does speak to his effectiveness at garnering an audience that he has been saying these things for 40 years and no one's been listening. Part of being a strong politician is being opportunistic. It may not endear you to the die hards, but it is part of the system of representative democracy, where you're supposed to speak for the people who elected you and not your own personal politics.

Hillary does not have the greatest track record for sticking to her own principles and instead riding the political wave, but every president in the history of this country could have been said to do that, to compromise and get shit done.

Hillary doesn't excite me in the least, but she doesn't scare me. I will add my number to anyone who has the chance to keep Trump out of the White House.

I'm not saying Hillary is terrible by all means. All my point was is that if there is a choice between Bernie and Hillary claiming that Hillary is stronger than Bernie is demonstrably untrue. A strong leader doesn't change their political opinions based on what's popular at the time. It's fine to say Hillary is stronger than republican candidates, or in general, but at least pay homage to the fact that Sanders, like him or not, isn't backing down, and won't compromise with republicans on his views. He's a true leader. I'm not saying this because i'm biased, but because even if you dislike everything he stands for you can at the very least agree that the strongest leaders know what they are fighting for, and are more concerned about doing the right thing than doing the thing that will bring money.


Hillary is weak because she doesn't fight for what she believes, she fights for what others believe, and the others she is fighting for, believe in scamming the system for personal gain.

[SteelCurtain]

If you live in a Blue State then your vote just adds one more to the group that makes the State Blue.  If you live in a Red State your vote doesn't count because the Dems in the Red States don't outvote the Repubs.  In that case you might as well stay home.

You're totally right. That's why the number of electoral votes for each candidate has been the exact same since the beginning. The candidates have always won the same states, and no Dem has ever won a Red state or vice versa. You're a genius.

[SteelCurtain]

I'm not saying Hillary is terrible by all means. All my point was is that if there is a choice between Bernie and Hillary claiming that Hillary is stronger than Bernie is demonstrably untrue. A strong leader doesn't change their political opinions based on what's popular at the time. It's fine to say Hillary is stronger than republican candidates, or in general, but at least pay homage to the fact that Sanders, like him or not, isn't backing down, and won't compromise with republicans on his views. He's a true leader. I'm not saying this because i'm biased, but because even if you dislike everything he stands for you can at the very least agree that the strongest leaders know what they are fighting for, and are more concerned about doing the right thing than doing the thing that will bring money.


Hillary is weak because she doesn't fight for what she believes, she fights for what others believe, and the others she is fighting for, believe in scamming the system for personal gain.

I don't know if it's demonstrably untrue. I think Hillary has her strengths, and Bernie has his. I like Bernie's strengths better--his integrity, for one. His voice for the common people, two.

But Hillary is stronger politically, stronger than Obama too. She's a more powerful figure in Washington. This is very important in the executive. As much as her husband is a liability, he's also a boon to her diplomatically.

Look, I love Bernie and would want nothing more than a Bernie Sanders presidency, but my point still stands: he's been saying the same thing for 40 years and not been effective at getting more people on board for 95% of that time. He is riding the wave of social change just like Hillary is, the difference being he is opportunistic in a different way.

[Minimalist]

I'm not saying this because i'm biased, but because even if you dislike everything he stands for you can at the very least agree that the strongest leaders know what they are fighting for, and are more concerned about doing the right thing than doing the thing that will bring money.

Now there's a two-edged sword if ever I saw one.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If you live in a Blue State then your vote just adds one more to the group that makes the State Blue.  If you live in a Red State your vote doesn't count because the Dems in the Red States don't outvote the Repubs.  In that case you might as well stay home.

You're totally right. That's why the number of electoral votes for each candidate has been the exact same since the beginning. The candidates have always won the same states, and no Dem has ever won a Red state or vice versa. You're a genius.

Hillary is going to win the South?  Her best bet was Florida but she's going to lose there as well.  She's a loser and hopefully we'll never her from her lying ass again after election day.

[SteelCurtain]

You're not great at reading, huh?