Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
(March 18, 2016 at 10:32 am)Brian37 Wrote: Deist aren't any better, neither are pantheists, those are simply watered down woo where the gap answer tries to avoid the divisions the old woo does, but it is still a gap answer. It is simply better logic to accept that our gods and religions were not around 4 billion years ago, or 14 billion years ago, and there is no need to gap fill with old religion or even a generic deity. The universe did fine prior to our existence and it will continue on long after we go extinct. We CAN as a species be positive about our ability, IF IF IF, we pull our collective heads out of our asses, we can be positive about finding ways to extend our finite ride.
There simply is no going back for me while I retain my lucid state, while my marbles are in tact, to go back to believing in sky wizards. I know too much about the size of our universe, to think that our god's or religions we create are important to the universe. It was understandable when humans didn't know any better that they made such bad guesses, but we know better now.
Atheism is not something that one has to accept, anymore than one has to accept that two plus two equals four. Theists ask us to accept their god. We say no and that is that. If they can't prove god, then we have nothing to prove.
That's pretty much where I am, Rhonda. I didn't "choose" to not believe, I didn't decide to "accept" anything. I just realized that what I had claimed to believe made no freaking sense. And I just couldn't send myself through "what if" mental hoops anymore. So if someone gets in my face, wanting me to accept their belief, they need to provide something substantial - no personal relationship, no fantasies, no apologetics and most certainly no book - just get that Deity to come by and prove it exists and I'll change my mind. Until then . . . makes no sense, I'm not buying it.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
(March 23, 2016 at 12:16 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: Atheism is not something that one has to accept, anymore than one has to accept that two plus two equals four. Theists ask us to accept their god. We say no and that is that. If they can't prove god, then we have nothing to prove.
That's pretty much where I am, Rhonda. I didn't "choose" to not believe, I didn't decide to "accept" anything. I just realized that what I had claimed to believe made no freaking sense. And I just couldn't send myself through "what if" mental hoops anymore. So if someone gets in my face, wanting me to accept their belief, they need to provide something substantial - no personal relationship, no fantasies, no apologetics and most certainly no book - just get that Deity to come by and prove it exists and I'll change my mind. Until then . . . makes no sense, I'm not buying it.
Rhonda.
Isn't that easy?
Just do what fuzzy said.
All you have to do when you want someone is to ....get that person to come by and prove it exists.
Isn't that clear?
Not completely clear, actually you have to ask fuzzy how you get that person-entity to come by?
Do you grab it and drag it by the neck or there is a different way to get it to you?
Oh, hang on Rhonda.
What about if that person doesn't want to come by?
How do you get it then?
(March 23, 2016 at 11:21 am)robvalue Wrote: Thank you
Rick has admitted there is no evidence for NDEs from the study, then has gone straight back to just believing them. I'm wondering if it's possible he can ever actually learn anything.
That is dishonesty Rob.
All i said is that that study find no evidence for and at the same time find no evidence against.
This has nothing to do with me going back believing.
I believe in the first place and I believe after that study.
That study find absolutely nothing therefore why should i go back believing?
Are you that blind not to make a distinction between the two?
Rik, can you put your carer on, please?
We'd like a word about your medication...
I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty. I must not be nasty.
(March 23, 2016 at 9:33 am)robvalue Wrote: Appeal to popularity fallacy.
Out of the people you just listed, yeah. I'm not claiming to be the only person in the world who doesn't talk rubbish.
You're committing two very severe errors:
1) You assume that what someone has experienced is "real", without any form of verification
2) Further, you assume that their interpretation, assessment and memory of the experience is accurate
If you care about reality, you should hold your own experiences (and testimony of others) to higher standards. If you just assume both of the above when an extraordinary anecdote lines up with your beliefs, you are gullible.
I may well assume something.
You also assume something Rob.
You assume that a verification should be done according to some sort of physical parameters.
Actually Dr. Parnia that is an expert in mind studies went a lot further and yet he could not find
anything that confirm or deny NDEs.
The problem with you guys is that you do not yet get in your mind that to understand consciousness you must practice and nor you nor Dr. Parnia practice this form of activity therefore nor you nor Dr. Parnia will ever be able to understand and produce any verification.
Verification can be found of course but not by people that do not practice the discipline of consciousness expansion.
No way.
March 24, 2016 at 9:56 am (This post was last modified: March 24, 2016 at 10:00 am by robvalue.)
My mistake. You believe things that have no evidence, and criticize others for not believing as well.
I've found no evidence against an evil magical toilet controlling the world via 23 identical metaphysical canisters of super-serum. So that must be true as well.
I'll leave you to your imagination.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
That's pretty much where I am, Rhonda. I didn't "choose" to not believe, I didn't decide to "accept" anything. I just realized that what I had claimed to believe made no freaking sense. And I just couldn't send myself through "what if" mental hoops anymore. So if someone gets in my face, wanting me to accept their belief, they need to provide something substantial - no personal relationship, no fantasies, no apologetics and most certainly no book
- just get that Deity to come by and prove it exists
and I'll change my mind. Until then . . . makes no sense, I'm not buying it.
Rhonda.
Isn't that easy?
Quote: Just do what fuzzy said.
All you have to do when you want someone is to ....get that person to come by and prove it exists.
Well sure. Just like every other entity. Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Superman and Dracula haven't showed up . . . no signs of Odin or Zeus or Rama or Osiris lately either. So it's reasonable to assume they don't exist until they actually show up.
Quote: Isn't that clear?
Not completely clear, actually you have to ask fuzzy how you get that person-entity to come by?
You claim a deity exists. So you must have some sort of verifiable proof. How did YOU get it to show up? Because I have utterly failed at that task for over 50 years. Oh, and if we haven't told you dozens of times - personal stories and "feelings" don't count. I could pray to Batman and get all sorts of feelings. (ha) We need a video with you and the deity. A photo? Maybe a sound recording?
Do you grab it and drag it by the neck or there is a different way to get it to you?
Oh, hang on Rhonda.
Quote: What about if that person doesn't want to come by?
Well, if your deity doesn't want to talk to me, I don't want to talk to it, and I don't have to believe it exists.
How do you get it then?
Gee, i never thought about it! :
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
(March 24, 2016 at 9:56 am)robvalue Wrote: My mistake. You believe things that have no evidence, and criticize others for not believing as well.
I've found no evidence against an evil magical toilet controlling the world via 23 identical metaphysical canisters of super-serum. So that must be true as well.
I'll leave you to your imagination.
Evidence is there.
No question about it Rob.
But there is a problem.
In order to get the evidence you first got to build up receptors in your mind.
You just remind me that guy that after he got a new tv he wonder why he could not
see any picture.
It is only when somebody explained to him that he should put an antenna on the roof point it
in the right direction make all the connection then he would be able to see images and sound.
Get it Rob?
The day you will practice consciousness expansion you too will be able to understand how the whole system works.
In the meantime your work with the preservation of old buildings is very well taken in high consideration
by all of us.
