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Free will
RE: Free will
IATIA,
IATIA Wrote:You are observing "free will" in action with the preconception that it does exist.

No. I do not have a preconception. I have direct personal experience of having free will, and so does everybody around me. They are not shy about telling me so.

IATIA Wrote:Show me then.  How do you test for free will?
My entire life is a constant test and verification of my own free will. Everybody around me reports the same results in the ongoing test that is their lives.

IATIA Wrote:The following two links shed light on how our "free will" may work.  Random, not free.

From Article 1 - How Your Brain is Like an Ant Colony
"... a team of researchers in Spain suggests there aren’t even leader neurons regulating the pulses in your brain architecture. Instead, they assert, individual randomly firing neurons give off waves, which urge other neurons to fire as well, amplifying the signal through 'noise focusing', 'an implosive concentration of spontaneous activity.'”
bolding mine

So, some researchers assert that neurons fire randomly, but that assertion is not supported by the analogy that the article draws with the purposeful and goal-oriented behavior of ants, which do not in any way act randomly.

From Article 2 - Ants Swarm Like Brains Think
"The behavior of each individual in the group is set by the rate at which it meets other ants and a set of basic rules. Its behavior alters that of its neighbors, which in turn affects the original ant, in a classic example of feedback."
“As I watched films of these ant colonies, it looked like what was happening at the synapse of neurons. Both of these systems accumulate evidence about their inputs—returning ants or incoming voltage pulses—to make their decisions about whether to generate an output—an outgoing forager or a packet of neurotransmitter,”

So, the behavior of ants in their colonies may be analogous to neuron activity in the human brain, and the behavior of ants is both purposeful and goal-oriented, taking into account information gained from other ants and from the world around them.

The very articles you cite demonstrate the exact opposite of your claim that our will is random. Like humans, ants make decisions based on input from the world around them in informed and purposeful ways. Ant behavior is not random, and by analogy, neither is ours.

Regards,
Shadow_Man
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RE: Free will
Make a choice. Now prove to me that you could have chosen differently.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Free will
(June 9, 2016 at 7:02 pm)IATIA Wrote: Make a choice.  Now prove to me that you could have chosen differently.

In what sense?
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RE: Free will
To end this whole debate like so
god is watching me there are 3 bowls of cereal 1. frosted flakes 2. a bowl of nails 3. a bowl of chex
god knows i will be 1.
He know i will choose bowl 1 and i pick 1 there are 2 other possible choices i COULD have made that's to say if god is all knowing.

If god wasn't all knowing there is a possibility of me making the 3 choices of my own FREE WILL i could eat the first bowl
the second or the third and said god wouldn't know what i will choose. So it comes to this i wouldn't eat the bowl of nails
obviously that leaves 50/50 chance for bowl 1 or 2. Since god isnt all knowing he doesn't know how i feel or what i want to eat.
so i could pick either or.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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RE: Free will
(March 26, 2016 at 10:55 am)dyresand Wrote: So get this god is all knowing he knew humanity would fall he knows what everyone at any given point and time would be doing 
something. so even if we wanted to live a "sinless" life it would be purely impossible. Since god would know our actions a head of time
that being said free will is just a illusion and were all drones. Free will if a god existed the chirstian god it simply doesn't exist only 
the illusion of free will does.

I think religiously free will tends to be defined as "without intervention from God". Given this definition, I am even more certain free will exists.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: Free will
Lol yes everyone has that free will.
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RE: Free will
Even if they pray real real hard
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: Free will
If the definition of free will is "God ain't interfering." Then rocks have free will.
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RE: Free will
(June 9, 2016 at 5:45 pm)Shadow_Man Wrote:
IATIA Wrote:Show me then.  How do you test for free will?
My entire life is a constant test and verification of my own free will. Everybody around me reports the same results in the ongoing test that is their lives.

No, it is not. That is strictly an assumption on your part. A claim. Prove it. Just because "everybody' thinks it so, does not make it so. I have already shown reasonable evidence that we do not have free will.

(and it is initially based randomly. You apparently skimmed past those parts.)
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Reply
RE: Free will
(June 10, 2016 at 1:04 pm)dyresand Wrote: To end this whole debate like so
god is watching me there are 3 bowls of cereal 1. frosted flakes 2. a bowl of nails 3. a bowl of chex
god knows i will be 1.
He know i will choose bowl 1 and i pick 1 there are 2 other possible choices i COULD have made that's to say if god is all knowing.

If god wasn't all knowing there is a possibility of me making the 3 choices of my own FREE WILL i could eat the first bowl
the second or the third and said god wouldn't know what i will choose. So it comes to this i wouldn't eat the bowl of nails
obviously that leaves 50/50 chance for bowl 1 or 2. Since god isnt all knowing he doesn't know how i feel or what i want to eat.
so i could pick either or.

Quick questions, without reference to god at all: 

1) Are you the kind of thing that is naturally capable of choosing to eat a bowl of frosted flakes?

2) Are you the kind of thing that is naturally capable of choosing to eat a bowl of nails?

3) Are you the kind of thing that is naturally capable of choosing to eat a bowl of chex?

In other words, are those things choices a human person is actually capable of making?
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