Lifespan 1000 years to 80?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Drich, for what it's worth: The Bible claims Adam lived to be 930 years old. The Hebrew word for year in this passage is 'shanah' (as in Rosh Hashanah) and means a solar year and nothing else. Ditto other claims of great ages among the patriarchs.

Furthermore, your comments regarding different calendars among different cultures are correct as far as they go, but not really relevant. Every ancient culture knew what a year was in the modern sense. Crops were planted and harvested at the same times every year, rivers flooded in a regular and predictable annual basis, the stars returned to the same positions at the same times, and so on.

Lastly, your comments regarding Stonehenge and Newgrange is mind-numbingly idiotic. No one is claiming that the Jews built Stonehenge. Dorfl was using what is known among sensible people as 'an example'. Look it up, do yourself some good.

Boru

[Drich]

what is frightening is that you think your the one speaking from the educated position, and none of your friends can or wants to help you understand how far off you really are.

You guys should know by now if I say something deceptively simple and counter-intuitive then you should take pause for a moment, because what ever I say I can back up.

So it is better to ask a question first and get a complete understanding, THEN make your judgement. If you simply rush to judgement you are more than likely going to get stung.

So what's the formula to convert old testament years into modern years then?

before the middle kingdom of Egypt we don't know how anyone counted years in that region for sure. (even in the middle kingdom it becomes hazy, however everything I mentioned someone has made a case for. Also know Israel was not a nation till after the fall of the middle kingdom.) basically it all boils down to counting the major events to signify planting and harvests which again could happen several times a year.

In short we don't know.

[Edwardo Piet]

It's excellent you admitted there are some things we do not know. That's a positive step in the right Direction, Drich.

Hammy

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It's excellent you admitted there are some things we do not know. That's a positive step in the right Direction, Drich.

Hammy

But even then, he gets it wrong. They Egyptians used a 365 day calendar as early as 3000 BCE, well before the Middle Kingdom.

So, Drich is wrong about things he thinks he knows, and wrong about thinks he thinks no one knows.

Boru

[Drich]

GOD'S WORD[REGISTERED SIGN] Translation
Noah lived a total of 950 years; then he died.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died.

New American Standard 1977 
So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years, and he died.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years, and he died.

King James 2000 Bible
And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

American King James Version
And all the days of Noah were nice hundred and fifty years: and he died.

If this doesn't mean 950 years as we know it today then tell me how many years Noah lived. Simply saying we're all stupid for thinking an OT year is a year but not telling us what is doesn't count as an answer.
So what's it to be? Your 'moon' theory? An OT year was a month?

Below Is a break down of soceities in that region and what they used for calendars. the oldest by far is what egypt used. 4000BC give or take. We are discussing a time period 2000 of our years before that.

Again, NO one knows how a years was divided then.

http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/cal...cient.html

All your quotes are meaningless as they all pertain to a shaneh. which again is translated into the word year in english, but is not defined by a specific measure of time. Post exodus that time period was locked into a 360 day calendar, but it does not mean 2000 years prior Noah used that same calendar to count off his years.

[TubbyTubby]

basically it all boils down to counting the major events to signify planting and harvests which again could happen several times a year.

In short we don't know.

So when the bible talks about events lasting days or months, they are not days and months as we understand them either?

"And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat."

When would the 'seventh month' have been do you think? If a year was not a year, a month must have been something else also. What was it?

[Pat Mustard]

Ancient people were clever enough to build the likes of Stonehenge and Newgrange which were aligned to the position of the sun at very specific times, eg you can see the sun from the innermost chamber in Newgrange only on dawn of the winter solstice. They understood full well what a year was.

So the jews built Stonehenge now? Or are you saying the Jews would have adopted a pagan calendar system when God provided a different one?

Do you not understand each culture had it's own way of recording time to coincide with major events in their regions? As in when to plant, when the migratory animals moved. when the river flooded. what ever was important to a given people is how they marked time. which differed from region to region.

So your response to my point is to make shit up about what I aaid and then proceed to refute your imagination. Pity you couldn't do tbe same wrt yhwh.

[Drich]

BrianSoddingBoru4Drich, for what it's worth:  The Bible claims Adam lived to be 930 years old.  The Hebrew word for year in this passage is 'shanah' (as in Rosh Hashanah) and means a solar year and nothing else.  Ditto other claims of great ages among the patriarchs.

Furthermore, your comments regarding different calendars among different cultures are correct as far as they go, but not really relevant.  Every ancient culture knew what a year was in the modern sense.  Crops were planted and harvested at the same times every year, rivers flooded in a regular and predictable annual basis, the stars returned to the same positions at the same times, and so on.

Lastly, your comments regarding Stonehenge and Newgrange is mind-numbingly idiotic.  No one is claiming that the Jews built Stonehenge.  Dorfl was using what is known among sensible people as 'an example'.  Look it up, do yourself some good.

Boru
I love it when you d-bags gets all smug and can't see the truth through all your 'facts.' It makes teeth kicking all the most satisfying

As I've posted the definition several times now I am well aware of the definition of Shaneh (not shanah: when speaking to the age of a man) shâneh, shaw-neh'; (in plural or (feminine) שָׁנָה shânâh)

Shanah simply means to:

1. to repeat, do again, change, alter
   
   1. (Qal) to change
      
   2. (Niphal) to be repeated
      
   3. (Piel) to change, alter
      
   4. (Hithpael) to disguise oneself
      

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H8138&t=KJV

Since you d-bags will not click on my links I'll post you the defination to Shaneh as well:
shâneh, shaw-neh'; (in plural or (feminine) שָׁנָה shânâh; from H8138; a year (as a revolution of time):— whole age, × long, old, year(× -ly).

But again the question should be what is a year? The definition in the english defines it as 365 1/4 days. This is not the hebrew defination it again simply means a span of time. Yes current jews understand this span of time to mean 365 days, but again this definition did not have to mean that. In ancient times the year 'floated' meaning depending on which culture you were apart of and in what time period this "span of time" was different.

Now Sodder, pay close attention to the next bit as it destroys any legitimacy to any claim you might think you have left.

Even if the Jews (at the time the bible was written/after the exodus meaning they adopted the 365 day calendar of the egyptians) they were writting about events that happened 2000 to 2500 years prior. So the question then becomes did the scribes do the math? Meaning did the scribes know how much time a year was to Adam and Noah, and then divide or multiply by the difference their current "span" was? or did they just carry over the contextually accurate use of the word and the contextually accurate number of "spans" those men lived?

If you spent any time at all studying this culture then you would know they would not be allowed to "do the math." These texts were meant for priestly eyes only, and in that IF they would have know the differences between a span of Noah and a span of the Egyptians it would have been communicated verbally when the texts were read, and not written down. As what was written down was the words God wanted on page. "Notes or points of reference" like this, is what made a priest a priest.

Ok, so how long was a year when noah was alive? we do not know. It was whatever noah said it was. How long did adam live? what ever noah passed down. We don't even know if Adam lived by the same calendar year Noah did.

If it was known it is now lost. we only have how many "spans" Noah and Adam lived, we just do not know what period of time a "span" exactly was.

That said if you fools want to ascribe 365 1/4 days to the term "shaneh" and make fun of the bible because it does not seem possible to you, then by all means. If you want to get defensive and insist that people who live 6000 years ago have the same understanding of the world and how time works as you do then please go ahead and insist that the world has always worked as it does now. and please make fun of things when they do not make sense rather than do any research, or ask any questions with an open mind..

I was just trying to help a few of you from looking like morons if infact that is not how you want to be viewed. But for those who are hell bent on looking as stupid and closed minded as possible then please "warrior poet" yourself into contentment.

[Drich]

basically it all boils down to counting the major events to signify planting and harvests which again could happen several times a year.

In short we don't know.

So when the bible talks about events lasting days or months, they are not days and months as we understand them either?

"And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat."

When would the 'seventh month' have been do you think? If a year was not a year, a month must have been something else also. What was it?

No as we understand a day it starts at midnight.

For the Jew it starts when the sun can no longer be seen (sun Down.)

A month for us can be as short as 28 days or as long as 31.

A month for a jew alternated between 29 and 30 days (based on a lunar cycle) meaning a New moon started a new month.

(which is why hanukkah and pass over start at different times on our calendar every month.)
the years are based on 12 or 13 months (leap month)
Also their year starts somewhere between march and april.

http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm

This is how their calendar works now (since the exodus) before then it was far more complicated.

[Drich]

So the jews built Stonehenge now? Or are you saying the Jews would have adopted a pagan calendar system when God provided a different one?

Do you not understand each culture had it's own way of recording time to coincide with major events in their regions? As in when to plant, when the migratory animals moved. when the river flooded. what ever was important to a given people is how they marked time. which differed from region to region.

So your response to my point is to make shit up about what I aaid and then proceed to refute your imagination. Pity you couldn't do tbe same wrt yhwh.

Dorklf,

You implied Stonehenge was proof of astrological awareness of a 360-365 day. My point was Stone Henge was NOT the center of the Jewish world when Exodus was written, So that being said what does it matter what the people who build stone henge knew and when they knew it?

Sorry I did not connect all of the dots for you earlier, I mistakenly gave you too much intelligence credit. (thought you could reason out what was being said based on the clues/evidence I left you to work with) Won't let that happen any more.