Why do Christians become Christians?

[drfuzzy]

[SteveII]

[brewer]

If I'm wired to believe can I make up my own fantasy? One that, for me, is better than the man made christian fantasy? You know that's how any of this god shit starts, right? OK here goes.

I live the best life that I can, balancing the good with the bad, each in it's own measure for the time. No matter how my life turns out in the end, I (at least pieces) wind up in a jar of formaldehyde on Valk's mantel. She pulls me out every so often to perform experiments and then what ever is left goes back to the jar. That's the reward!

BTW, no one else gets to join, the mantel is not big enough. Go away!

[Mudhammam]

So your answer is that more and more people every year, for 2000 years, are either 1) not concerned about the truth, 2) deceived and fail to detect the deception. 

Yes.

Your statement that Christianity contains "overwhelming examples of division, egotism, theological hatreds, and falsehoods, which tend to be indistinguishable from the utterly delusional" does not line up with the teachings of the NT (and therefore not Christian).

Sure it does. First and foremost, the NT wholly and devoutly sanctions the Old Testament as expressive of God's holy thought on terrestrial matters, which includes such gems of bigotry as Psalm 14:1 and the countless instances in which apostates and blasphemers are sentenced to be executed. This mindset is clearly seen to carry over into the New Law, where Jesus and his followers condemned all those who disbelieve in God or the Christ to eternal torment, or as Paul puts it: "Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to nor perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." So, on top of the fact that these bigoted texts found in the OT and NT equate atheism with total wickedness and greediness/thievery/swindling/verbal abuse with homosexuality (the author clearly knows a thing or two about verbal abuse), it also condemns anyone who rejects the proclaimed "anointed one" to everlasting suffering after death. What you should have said, then, is that I meant this:

So, in fact you are talking about individuals who exhibit these qualities inspired by what it means to be a Christian according to the Old and New Testaments.

In general, you are ascribing motives and reasons for people's beliefs when in reality, you do not and cannot know.

I can know about as well as you can, as you clearly presumed to know in the OP.

[robvalue]

I don't get the point of this.

I'm reading it as, "It's understandable people get drawn into this cult. It doesn't make them dumb."

I agree with that. It's totally understandable. It doesn't necessarily make them dumb at all. The tactics that are employed to hook people in range from devious to downright harmful. If there is another message here that isn't just an appeal to popularity, I don't know what it is. We could just as easily be discussing a confidence trickster.

Is this another "I'm not crazy for believing this" attempt? I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of theists are here to convince themselves of this.

[TubbyTubby]

[robvalue]

Haha, right.

The correct God has almost zero persuasive power to people born in predominantly Muslim countries. That says it all, really. What we see would be more accurately modelled by several entities rather than one, all having localised areas of influence.

Christians would have no need to indoctrinate their children, right

Apparently they do, or they lose out on the arms race.

[robvalue]

I imagine the gods all playing a game of Risk.

Finally Yahweh rolls a fistful of sixes, and gets some of his influence points into China, which is poorly defended.

[Angrboda]

One aspect of this that hasn't been discussed is the fact that religious belief is inversely proportional to both socioeconomic class and education. One can think what one wills about the implications of that, but it would seem to imply that the poor and the ignorant find the message of Christ more appealing. If the message is so popular, why does it appeal most to the downtrodden? That sounds to me like the beliefs take advantage of the vulnerabilities of a distressed population. So it is not simply that the message is appealing, but that the message is appealing to certain types and for specific reasons. Otherwise that message would appeal unilaterally to all classes.

While it may be a non sequitur in this thread, it bears emphasizing that because a message is appealing doesn't make it any more likely to be true. Indeed, the appeal of the message may instead of marking a sign of truthfulness, signal a departure from reality. It's easier to make promises if you don't have to stick to the truth.

[robvalue]

Exactly right. I don't know why it's so important to Steve that the message is appealing, except to set up an excuse for himself in case he's just talking to no one.