NC Gov on the wrong side of history......

[Jackie]

[Lek]

[FatAndFaithless]

[Faith No More]

Please clarify something for me.  When you speak of "transgender" people do you mean only people who have been physically transformed into the opposite sex?  Or do you include people who are physically one sex, but identify and dress as the other sex?

What does it matter?

[Lek]

Please clarify something for me.  When you speak of "transgender" people do you mean only people who have been physically transformed into the opposite sex?  Or do you include people who are physically one sex, but identify and dress as the other sex?

What does it matter?

It matters because if a man thinks he is a woman, but has a penis, why can't he/she use the men's urinal to pee?

[Regina]

[Lek]

Please clarify something for me.  When you speak of "transgender" people do you mean only people who have been physically transformed into the opposite sex?  Or do you include people who are physically one sex, but identify and dress as the other sex?

Transgender includes everyone who identifies with a different gender to the one assigned at birth, so yes it includes people who have not had SRS. "Transsexual" is sometimes used to describe people who have already had SRS, but "transgender" still applies to them.

However, you can't necessarily tell who has had SRS or not just by looking at them. Most of the secondary sex characterstic (breasts and hips in transwomen, facial and body hair in transmen) are brought on by hormone treatments, not SRS. You can have transgender people who look VERY passable (physically look like the gender they identify as perfectly) who still have their birth genitals.

That's why the "birth genitals" argument for bathroom segregation gets fuzzy and doesn't make sense. You can have transgender men who, with clothes on, you'd never guess wasn't born a man, but still has a vagina. Same for transwomen. Laws like this are suggesting those people should still be made to go into the bathroom based on their genitals, you'd literally have a straight-up woman (from outside appearance anyway) going into mens' bathrooms, and vice versa.

So it comes down to the comfort of the person involved.

[Faith No More]

It matters because if a man thinks he is a woman, but has a penis, why can't he/she use the men's urinal to pee?

Because it turns out gender is about much more than what's between your legs.

What harm does it do to you if a person that identifies as a woman but still has a penis uses the women's restroom?

[Minimalist]

What does it matter?

It matters because if a man thinks he is a woman, but has a penis, why can't he/she use the men's urinal to pee?

Why do you care?

[Lek]

What if a man who thinks he's a woman, but is dressed like a man wants to go into the women's restroom? Even though he's dressed as a man and has a penis, is he still a woman and thus entitled to used the women's room?