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(May 22, 2016 at 8:33 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Wait, she gets to call us enemies and lie about the nature of school prayer, etc... and that doesn't require a speedbump, but responding to one of the most vile things that can be said about us is what's over the line?!?
Congratulations, you just lost a forum member.
Enjoy your Christians.
Noooooooooo! Come back! Not fair that you leave and the fucken troll stays. It wasn't personal, dude. It's a rule for everyone. "Janice" cough (Joe Dirt) is probably scratching its belly whilst eating a pickle and laughing. Don't leave, yo.
"Hipster is what happens when young hot people do what old ladies do." -Exian
(May 22, 2016 at 8:33 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Wait, she gets to call us enemies and lie about the nature of school prayer, etc... and that doesn't require a speedbump, but responding to one of the most vile things that can be said about us is what's over the line?!?
(May 22, 2016 at 8:33 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Wait, she gets to call us enemies and lie about the nature of school prayer, etc... and that doesn't require a speedbump, but responding to one of the most vile things that can be said about us is what's over the line?!?
Congratulations, you just lost a forum member.
Enjoy your Christians.
Is some random troll bending the rules a bit all it takes?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
May 23, 2016 at 1:43 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 1:44 am by Thumpalumpacus.)
Rocker --
(May 22, 2016 at 8:19 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:
(May 22, 2016 at 5:30 pm)Janice_Spokes Wrote: "Insular Society" "God's country", call us what you will, but Oklahoma is one of the grandest places in the USA.
Atheists are not the enemy? Excuse me? You take prayer out of schools, want to remove "Under God" from our pledge, and want to forbid the putting up of nativity scenes and merry christmas. Why aren't you the enemy?
By "insular society", I refer to the fact that your state is known have little diversity of people or thought. Oklahoma is notorious for this. The fact that you don't see that is an indicator of that fact.
Prayer is not out of schools. Everyone is still free to pray in school, individually and in student-led groups. What is not permissible is for public officials, paid by tax dollars, to lead the students in prayer, or to use the schools as "captive audience" locations for religious leaders to proselytize to. If you really thought about it, you'd realize that having officials leading school prayers is a Bad Idea™, the moment someone who is not your religion starts doing it. Do you really want Wiccan teachers leading their type of prayers with your kids in the room? Would you want an Imam asking all the children to kneel to the east and pray with him? Seriously, think about it. In order to have a pluralistic society, the government and ALL of its facilities must be neutral with respect to religion... including yours.
No one gives a crap about your nativity scenes unless, like the above, they are placed on land that is owned by members of all religions (and the Nones, like us). Then it becomes an impermissible use of my tax dollars to build a (temporary) shrine to your religion. Put up nativity scenes in front of your house, your church, and in the farm fields next to the highway (or wherever else my tax money did not purchase and maintain that land), and we have no problems.
I will happily say Merry Christmas to a person who is a Christian. No worries! But in respect for the fact that many people in this country are members of other religions that share a Winter Solstice holiday, I tend to say "Happy Holidays", and smart businesses are also apt to ask their employees to act toward customers of all sorts in a manner that respects every customer. It is a mark of your idea of religious privilege that you think the Christian faith should be deferred to simply because you are the majority faith... it is because you are the majority faith that you people should be taking extra caution not to marginalize others.
And yet you do, at every opportunity. Oh, not every Christian feels this way, of course, but your sort does. Because you feel that your faith is The Correct Faith™, you attack the wall of separation at every opportunity, in order to pressure people who are not like you. That makes you the enemy-- the enemy of pluralism and free society. You simply cannot see that because you've never really paused to consider anyone's perspective other than your own.
And that's why I call yours an insular society.
As much as I respect you and your willingness to give her a detailed and civil reply, I'm afraid it's a case of pearls before swine, brotha.
I keep getting messages (which ping my phone to let me know I have a message), and have been having to reply to queries in several formats, so I'll come say this here to get it all out of the way.
I don't give a rat's ass (am I allowed to say that?) about the behavior of a troll. By the way, I don't think this is a troll; I've lived in Oklahoma, and this is really how most (white) people there think and speak.
What I do care about is the heavy-handed behavior of moderators on this board, a pattern I have noticed and been chafing at for some time.
Whether or not the post was directed at me (and I don't see how it could have been otherwise, since I too was arguing with this person who was so willing to slander us), we have a sudden and almost random "application of the rules", after this person has already started up several aggressive and libelous threads, only to start up another one in the introductions section that immediately sets about trying to flame us... and NOW it's off-limits to respond in (as Thump kindly called it), a "detailed and civil reply", just because this time she happened to pick the Introductions section for her, what, fifth thread?
Well, I don't use the sections; I use the "New Posts" button, which makes it hard to notice what sub-forum it's in when I open a new topic. The last thing I want to do with my time is worry about whether this particular thread I open up is going to draw a moderator's censorship, especially when the only thing I ever see anymore is long-time atheist members getting called out/constrained, and these vile bigots just left to run essentially rampant. That is why I said "enjoy your Christians".
For most of the previous year, I was spread too thin with my small amount of "spare" time, trying to keep up with the posts on AF and TTA at the same time, so I chose between them. I chose AF because of its smaller membership numbers; I figured it would hurt TTA less to lose the active participation of a member than it would, here. I have been questioning that decision, as I watched the pattern develop, and have instead decided to return to TTA. I like and/or respect a great many of you. So if any of you are members of TTA, or wish to post there, I will be glad to keep talking to you all.
If-and-when AF decides to get a new crop of less-heavy-handed moderators, and issues an apology for the constant Big Brother oversight that has been the case in the last couple of months, I will return. If this cannot be, then I wish you all the best.
- Rob (aka Rocket)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
May 23, 2016 at 4:03 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 4:57 am by Edwardo Piet.)
I don't know where to start when I think of replying to you Rocket, and I feel like an alternative way of looking at the situation isn't going to convince easy
For what it's worth I think intentions of the staff is what matters most, our intentions are good, we are open to criticism and we are doing our best. We are simply trying to be as unbiased, objective and as fair as we can be. The rule in the introductions forum applies to everyone and if the speedbump was given slightly late it's not due to a random application of rules but rather due to the fact that as competent as we are as staff members we are at the end of the day: human.
Good luck on TTA. I am there but I don't post much (I haven't even changed my name from "EvieTheTurtle" to "HammyTheTurtle" yet) but good luck over there and if I see you I hope we can have some positive exchanges my friend. I consider you a friend, Rocket, and I mostly feel disheartened, frustrated, saddened and hurt by your view on The Staff, that's how I feel for whatever it's worth.
May 23, 2016 at 4:07 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 4:09 am by robvalue.)
I had absolutely no idea you were upset about any of this. I wish you had formally raised it with us. I literally had no idea at all. This seemed like an out of the blue quit to me.
The staff have been nothing but fair and even handed from my perspective, towards everyone. We carefully debate everything. But we can't address issues we don't know about.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
(May 22, 2016 at 5:16 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: It is hardly surprising to me that, coming from such an insular society, in which everyone you know thinks just like you, that you'd have a hard time grasping why atheism makes any sense. However, if you really want to know, there was an atheist group that met weekly at a restaurant/bar in the Paseo Arts District (it's called the Picasso Cafe, now, but was called something else, back in 2002 when I was there). If you'd really like to get to know some nonbelievers as people, you might drop by some of their meetings.
According to their website, they now have a larger number of activities, with a schedule. You can contact them via the website, and attend the meetups scheduled on the site.
I think you'll find, when you actually meet and get to know some of us, that many of your preconceived notions about us are simply wrong, peddled by preachers who have an agenda in making us look like The Enemy™.
"Insular Society" "God's country", call us what you will, but Oklahoma is one of the grandest places in the USA.
Atheists are not the enemy? Excuse me? You take prayer out of schools, want to remove "Under God" from our pledge, and want to forbid the putting up of nativity scenes and merry christmas. Why aren't you the enemy?
Learn what the United States Constitution is about before you start acting like atheists are the enemy. This thing called separation of church and state exists for a reason. You have the right to practice your religious beliefs in your home and church. You do not have the right to force your religious beliefs on others, whether that is through demanding prayer in school, requiring the words "under god" in the pledge of allegiance or on the united States currency that is printed by the government. No one is denying you of your religious freedoms, lady. If you think otherwise, then try living in a country where having those religious views will get you killed.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
