Question to Christians

[Drich]

Indeed word eternal is used in the bible.

SECOND QUESTION. Is it just to doom a person for eternal agony because they experienced certain amount of pleasant moments? Or grand eternal happiness for a dozen years of work for the common good? Is there justice in those things?

two things. The bible says Hell is forever. It also say (Jesus Says) We "living souls" are sent there to be destroyed. Hell is our second death. Our permanent death.

[purplepurpose]

Indeed word eternal is used in the bible.

SECOND QUESTION. Is it just to doom a person for eternal agony because they experienced certain amount of pleasant moments? Or grand eternal happiness for a dozen years of work for the common good? Is there justice in those things?

two things. The bible says Hell is forever. It also say (Jesus Says) We "living souls" are sent there to be destroyed. Hell is our second death. Our permanent death.

So, atheists get what they wished for? Independence and pride in death(non existence)?


No wonder religion is formal(not serious) world wide, as people don't wish to turn their life in to "little purgatory" for heavenly afterlife.

[Drich]

two things. The bible says Hell is forever. It also say (Jesus Says) We "living souls" are sent there to be destroyed. Hell is our second death. Our permanent death.

So, atheists get what they wished for? Independence and pride in death(non existence)?


No wonder religion is formal(not serious) world wide, as people don't wish to turn their life in to "little purgatory" for heavenly afterlife.

a little presumptuous don't you think? In that you think you know what the second death is? Death here in this life is the ceasing of cognitive thought and the termination of biological life. But the question should be, is this what the second death is or is limited to? Scripture describes something else. There is a reason why many believe Hell is eternal torment, because in part that is what the bible describes Hell to be, (for satan and his angels) but at the same time Jesus Himself says it is where the soul is destroyed.

Now what Jesus said, did not include a time limit on how long this destruction/death would take. Think RotJ and the Great Pit of Carkoon (where the sarlacc digests his victims over thousands of years.) Death is most likely not immediate. I have it on pretty good authority/It is my thought that you will 'simmer' in Hell based on how you lived your life. And once the evil is burned away then what's left is also consumed by hell fire. Meaning your sanity is finally consumed, and either what's left is burned up or is further burned won't really matter much any more.

[purplepurpose]

So, atheists get what they wished for? Independence and pride in death(non existence)?


No wonder religion is formal(not serious) world wide, as people don't wish to turn their life in to "little purgatory" for heavenly afterlife.

a little presumptuous don't you think? In that you think you know what the second death is? Death here in this life is the ceasing of cognitive thought and the termination of biological life. But the question should be, is this what the second death is or is limited to? Scripture describes something else. There is a reason why many believe Hell is eternal torment, because in part that is what the bible describes Hell to be, (for satan and his angels) but at the same time Jesus Himself says it is where the soul is destroyed.

Now what Jesus said, did not include a time limit on how long this destruction/death would take. Think RotJ and the Great Pit of Carkoon (where the sarlacc digests his victims over thousands of years.) Death is most likely not immediate. I have it on pretty good authority/It is my thought that you will 'simmer' in Hell based on how you lived your life. And once the evil is burned away then what's left is also consumed by hell fire. Meaning your sanity is finally consumed, and either what's left is burned up or is further burned won't really matter much any more.

The most amazing thing is that this stuff is embraced by people who WISH to be almost as slaves/servants to a God as a blessing or a tool to KILL their ambitions, preforming some sort of mental lifelong choking of their ambitions. Path of a martyr is creepy.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

In Christianity hell is temporary, Everyone makes bail on Judgment Day.  Hell then gets tossed into the lake of fire.  The people in hell will then get tossed into the lake of fire or get a pass into the golden cube, but only if they are members of one of the twelve tribes of Israel.  The old heaven passes away.  The golden cube in on a waterless planet that doesn't have any night or darkness.  It sounds like hell but it's supposed to be nice, but only if you can get into the golden cube.  There's a tall wall around it to keep the riffraff out.  Evidently they don't get any water,  food or shade.  It's going to make for a helluva sunburn.  

In Islam you get tossed into hell on Judgment Day.  It's permanent and it really sucks big time.  You don't go to a big heaven as such.  You get a big individual pearl about 60 miles in diameter where you can kick back with some women and two 90 foot tall transparent women-type creatures.  Plus you get all of the wine you can drink and a herd of cute boys you can diddle.  It's really geared toward horny men.  The majority of women are roasting in hell.

What a mindfuck all this info is. Do you believe in that stuff?

It's all in the religious fairy tales available for your reading pleasure.  

Even the Bible says not to believe in Jewish fairy tales and that the stories are just for entertainment.

[Lek]

Indeed word eternal is used in the bible.

SECOND QUESTION. Is it just to doom a person for eternal agony because they experienced certain amount of pleasant moments? Or grand eternal happiness for a dozen years of work for the common good? Is there justice in those things?

You seem to be of the opinion that sin is all pleasant stuff and doing God's will is all unpleasant stuff. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that. Since christians and non-christians alike sin, nobody goes to heaven because they lived a good life. People go to heaven because they believe in and have faith in Jesus. They are absolved from their sins because of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

As far as heaven and hell being eternal, the word that has been translated from the original Greek into English is "aeonios" which literally means "of an age". The length of the age is unknown since it is yet to come. The verses people use to determine an eternal heaven or hell translate that word as "eternal", but that's not a literal, or not even necessarily the best interpretation. One would have to use other evidence in the bible to reinforce that concept and the supporting evidence seems to better support a limited duration of one's time in hell. Since the time of the early church fathers, many have held the view that an unsaved person will spend an appropriate in hell and then be annihilated. Others believe that hell is a place of purification where a person will spend an appropriate time and then be taken to heaven. The catholic church, which was pretty much the only christian church at the time, adopted the "everlasting punishment" concept and it has been the most influential position to this day, although many evangelical christians still hold one of the other two views. I happen to lean toward the view that since God is loving and Jesus died for the sins of all, along with other ample evidence from the bible, that all will eventually be saved although some will have to suffer in hell for a time. I disagree with my christian brother Drich here, but that's OK because it's not an issue that effects our salvation. Lot's of christians disagree on many issues, but we're all christians.

As far as heaven goes, it appears to me that there has always been pretty much universal agreement among christains that the bible supports the concept of an everlasting heaven.

[purplepurpose]

Lek, do you get to "love" your wife in heaven, besides praising the sun?

[Lek]

Lek, do you get to "love" your wife in heaven, besides praising the sun?

As far as what the bible says about heaven, we will be in new bodies and will live on what is referred to as the "new earth". Why would we just sit around "praising the sun"? Where did you get your ideas about heaven and hell? If you want to know what the bible says about heaven and hell go to the bible.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

People go to heaven because they believe in and have faith in Jesus.

I've always found this to be a thoroughly monstrous doctrine. Hypothetical:

Martuk is a member of a tribe (African jungle, South American rainforest, Australian bush - doesn't really matter) who have never heard of Jesus. Martuk has a wife and five children. He is a kind and gentle man, provides for his family, helps the rest of the tribe as much as he can. His wife is devoted to him, his children love him dearly, the other tribespeople all agree he is a 'good sort'. He is known to everyone as a charitable and wise man.

One day, Martuk is out gathering medicinal plants for the benefit of a sick friend, when his is bitten by an animal. By the time Martuk gets home, the bite has become infected. Within a few days, Martuk has a raging fever and he dies shortly thereafter, surrounded by family and friends, all weeping over their great loss.

Based on Christian dogma, Martuk never gets to Heaven. The absolutely best he can hope for is simmering torture and the eventual utter destruction of his soul. Such is the 'justice' meted out by a 'loving' God to a good and kind man, all because he never had the opportunity to believe in Jesus.

Fuck Christianity.

Boru

[Ignorant]

People go to heaven because they believe in and have faith in Jesus.

I've always found this to be a thoroughly monstrous doctrine.  Hypothetical:

Martuk is a member of a tribe (African jungle, South American rainforest, Australian bush - doesn't really matter) who have never heard of Jesus.  Martuk has a wife and five children.  He is a kind and gentle man, provides for his family, helps the rest of the tribe as much as he can.  His wife is devoted to him, his children love him dearly, the other tribespeople all agree he is a 'good sort'.  He is known to everyone as a charitable and wise man.

One day, Martuk is out gathering medicinal plants for the benefit of a sick friend, when his is bitten by an animal.  By the time Martuk gets home, the bite has become infected.  Within a few days, Martuk has a raging fever and he dies shortly thereafter, surrounded by family and friends, all weeping over their great loss.

Based on Christian dogma, Martuk never gets to Heaven.  The absolutely best he can hope for is simmering torture and the eventual utter destruction of his soul.  Such is the 'justice' meted out by a 'loving' God to a good and kind man, all because he never had the opportunity to believe in Jesus.

Fuck Christianity.

Boru

I'm not one for "proof texting", so I would invite you to read this, and then evaluate Martuk according to it:

"For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse OR EVEN DEFEND THEM on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus."
-Romans 2:14-16

I think there is hope for Martuk, but that is just me...