Atheism and Purpose

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

B. No one is free from superstition and dogma. Almost everything you believe you have never verified for yourself. And your use of "we" constitutes the construction of dogma; atheist dogma to be sure, but
dogma nonetheless.

What a load of nonsense.
Everything I believe can be verified, assuming I haven't already, or supported with evidence. Even if I lived in a cave my whole life and 'believed' evolution, it is something that does not depend on belief in the same or similar manner as religious faith.
Just because paul used the term 'we' do describe atheists as a generalized group, doesn't mean he assumes some sort of dogma. That's not how things work.
You're jumping to conclusions with no basis.

C. Before I came back in to respond to my post, everyone was adamant that "NO" they never thought such thoughts, but now you come in and speak for everyone and say "YES" "WE" are aware of that freedom.

The idea of that kind of freedom was irrelevant to my becoming an atheist, which had more to do with the battle between rational thinking and illogical fantasy. If you intended to have us answer the question in the manner you're assuming we have, then you should have asked a better question.
Now that I consider myself an atheist, I am fully aware that my life isn't bound to religious dogma and my life is better for it.

D. Living life as you see fit and following the personal happiness within yourself sounds like a sociopath. I'm sure you didn't intend to sound that way, but you do. It makes me think you're just spouting out, dare I say, dogmatic atheistic platitudes.

I'd rather be a sociopath than a slave, but no, living my life free of dogma means I can find my own happiness insead of constantly finding ways to impress an invisible sky daddy.

E. Really? You are free to live your life without fear? None at all? Well, all I can say is something doesn't smell right in the trash can. I have never known one human being in my life, or mammal for that matter, that wasn't afraid of something. Most of life is lived via fear. It moves us from one spot to another. Now, you probably didn't mean to sound that...well, I can't think of a polite word to use. But my point is, you sound that way because you are dogmatic. What you just spewed out is the definition of dogma. Atheist dogma, yes, but dogma nonetheless.

Yes. I do not fear death nor do I live my life in the paranoia I see far too often grip my peers.
Atheists do not have a dogmatic ideaology.

[Edward the Theist]

Presumably then you do feel that you have a purpose. A purpose pre-destined by this God character. If so then I have to ask what that purpose is and to what end?

Yes, I do. But you have to understand, I have a very different notion of God than most theists have. God is not comprehensible, not anthropomorphically anyway. When I see God, I see the construct my psychology has made, and it enables me to channel the power of...whatever it is.

Because to call it God is incorrect. It's something greater than God. It's what created God, my God, in that it created me, and then I created God. I have to, it's the only way I can understand "it".

I say all that to make this point: my purpose is to write down what I think I know about this--a theory of cosmology, if you will. I understand it philosophically. I understand it religiously, I just don't have it scientifically, yet. But I am working on it mathematically every day.

It may all come to nothing. But it's what I feel obsessed with.

You said: "This I think is the fundamental difference between you and I. You look at the Cosmos and say "why", whereas I look at the Cosmos and say "how"! Correct me if I'm wrong."

I think you are right on that. I think that is true.

[Darwinian]

One thread you could start is an explanation about your views on Cosmology.

[HeyItsZeus]

It dawned on me about a year ago why atheism is so attractive. I was having a hard time with existential issues. You know, what am I supposed to do with my life? What meaning do I have? Is there any reason for my birth? How can I find my purpose for being? That sort of thing.

Then I realized a startling fact: if there is no God who created me, then I have no purpose. No inherent purpose, no mission in life. If everything is chaos and natural selection, then I'm just a determined entity. I don’t have to worry about “purpose.” There is no purpose. I am free from my existential dilemma. Free at last.

All I have to do is stop believing in God.

I was wondering if any of the atheists in here would like to comment. Have any of you had the same experience?

I came to this site because I thought it was the only place I could get away from people like you. Thank you very much kind(but not so bright) sir.

[chasm]

You know, what am I supposed to do with my life?

I don't know. Do you have any dreams or aspirations? That might be a good place to start.

What meaning do I have?

You, as a biological creature and a human being, have the meaning/purpose to mate and have kids. You know, survival of the species and all that.

Is there any reason for my birth?

Most likely, your parents wanted a child.

How can I find my purpose for being?

See "What meaning do I have?"

If there is no God who created me, then I have no purpose. No inherent purpose, no mission in life.

Wrong.

If everything is chaos and natural selection, then I'm just a determined entity. I don’t have to worry about “purpose.” There is no purpose. I am free from my existential dilemma.

Hmm. I guess that's true. But I'm not sure how believing in God would give you anymore purpose than you already have.

All I have to do is stop believing in God.

You see, that's not true. You have to actually believe that God doesn't exist, not just stop believing because you think you'll be "free". Those are two different things.

Have any of you had the same experience?

No. But I'll give you my atheist experience.

When I was around twelve, I started to question my beliefs in God. I believed in God because that's what my parents taught me. But I was curious about it, and I read the Bible cover to cover, and by the end of the book I was an atheist. I started to realize that there is no evidence for God. If there is, could you show me some? Because I can't find any. (And, of course, religious texts do not count as evidence because they were not written by God. They were written by man). And out of the many, many theories and possibilities about how the Earth, and the universe for that matter, came into existence, why is God the correct one? And how do you know you aren't believing in the wrong God? Which one is right?

And tada... I'm an atheist now.

[SleepingDemon]

Why would you want to complicate things with philisophical and existential nonsense? Just live your life, it's all that is expected. I don't really contemplate the end of my life, because for the time being it isn't really all that important. I'm alive today. I exist today. What could possibly be the purpose to that beyond what purpose I give myself, what goals I set for myself?

The thundering flaw in all of theism is that it revolves around the importance of an individual. You believe in spacegods and destiny because it makes you important. Your life has meaning because some all powerful celestial being deemed your life necessary for this planet. You believe in heaven and hell because your life cannot possibly end with the end of you. It's arrogance, pure and simple masturbation of the ego to follow some fanciful notion that in an infinite universe you have some divine purpose for existing.

You and I, along with every other creature are merely insignificant specks in a larger insignificant speck in an even larger insignificant and ordinary speck amidst hundreds of billions. Do you honestly look up at the stars at night and ponder what your purpose in the face of infinity is? How do you not feel small? You and I will die, and long after you and I die our fellow species will hopefully move on to other planets and other solar systems and maybe even someday other galaxies. We will be forgotten, we will have been but a twinkle in the existence of our fair species if it survives.

But what your "purpose" should be, as should everyone else's is to make what little time you spend on this rock worth your time. Do something with your life beyond spouting incoherent rhetoric on a message board and live as if you will die tomorrow. Because you most certainly will, perhaps not the day after today. But someday you will. And you will be nothing but a picture in the minds and whisper on the lips of everyone that you leave behind. Unless you do something extraordinary or become someone extraordinary you will dwell amongst the rest of us as mere ordinary mortals. So wake up every morning happy, go to bed every night content, and never stop moving yourself forward. Because once you move past all of the dogma and theological nonsense your life will either have been completed by the steps you have taken, or it will have been an uneventful intermission to the time before you were born and the time after you are gone. You are guaranteed a very short stay on this tiny rock floating in a void. What you do with it is yours to choose, how you live your short life is yours to choose. But don't follow the lives of so many who came before us and live your life expecting some reward at the end of it, some glimpse at immortality after your time here has ended. I can tell you it is almost certain that you will be sorely disappointed.

[Spencer]

I hope to leave the space I rent, when I die, in just a little better condition than it was when I was born into it. Thats as close to a meaning to life Ive got. But until then, Ill bring the beer, you bring the cups and lets enjoy the time we're here!

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Y'all may be right: life may have no purpose whatsoever. In fact, it's easier to live life if it has no purpose, because then you don't have to live up to a purpose.

Ive never disagreed with a statement more than this one. I live my life for my kids, family, and the community in which I live! They bring and give me more in my life than any mythical creature has.

All I asked is whether you noticed that freedom or not. It's almost more telling that everyone dogpiled in to register their "no" vote as quick as they could. Adrian up there posted "no," I think, before I actually published my post!

Well it seemed apparent that you were attempting to say that we simply couldnt have a purpose in life because we don't believe in gods. (I use 'we' loosely because everyone varies in their opinions.) Thus no god = no reason to live.

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Also I apologize if im touching on topics already answered or responded to, I am still reading my way through this thread.

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All I asked is whether you noticed that freedom or not.

Oh yes... we are well aware that we (atheists) are free from superstition and dogma. We are well aware that we are free to live our lives without fear. We are well aware that we are free to live our lives as we see fit and that personal happiness comes from within ourselves and from each other (people in general, not just atheists). We have the freedom you talked about and, yes, we are aware of it.

Does that answer your question?

(EDIT: Let me add that the freedom you speak of is not why I am an atheist, but it is a nice side effect.)

Wish I could give you double kudos on this one. =)

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Edward, If everything needs a purpose to be meaningful as you seem to think then what was your purpose in seeking out these forums and discussing this topic with us? How has it enhanced your life?

[Rev. Rye]

It dawned on me about a year ago why atheism is so attractive. I was having a hard time with existential issues. You know, what am I supposed to do with my life? What meaning do I have? Is there any reason for my birth? How can I find my purpose for being? That sort of thing.

Then I realized a startling fact: if there is no God who created me, then I have no purpose. No inherent purpose, no mission in life. If everything is chaos and natural selection, then I'm just a determined entity. I don’t have to worry about “purpose.” There is no purpose. I am free from my existential dilemma. Free at last.

All I have to do is stop believing in God.

I was wondering if any of the atheists in here would like to comment. Have any of you had the same experience?

I've thought about the question of purpose is, but the fact is that when I realised that it made sense to not believe in God, I didn't just use that as an opt-out of that problem. As Elionwy noted, removal of a higher power of the equation does not so much answer or nullify the question of "what is my purpose?" as create a new question of "what should my purpose be?" It's easy to just follow someone else's proscriptions, but this effectively forces one to create one's own, which is harder, but, I think, much more rewarding.

But hey, at least you didn't claim that atheists don't believe in God because they want to sin. That would be both wrong and incredibly stupid. Especially since atheists don't bother with any concept of sin, and despite that, (if the statistics of America's prisons are any indication) they're probably better behaved than Christians anyway.

[Edward the Theist]

No. But I'll give you my atheist experience.

When I was around twelve, I started to question my beliefs in God. I believed in God because that's what my parents taught me. But I was curious about it, and I read the Bible cover to cover, and by the end of the book I was an atheist. I started to realize that there is no evidence for God. If there is, could you show me some? Because I can't find any. (And, of course, religious texts do not count as evidence because they were not written by God. They were written by man). And out of the many, many theories and possibilities about how the Earth, and the universe for that matter, came into existence, why is God the correct one? And how do you know you aren't believing in the wrong God? Which one is right?

And tada... I'm an atheist now.

You ask how do I know I'm not believing in the wrong god? How could I be? It's my God.

Everyone has their own god, even atheists have their own god, they simply don't differentiate between the thing they see in the mirror and God. Other people externalize god, like me. Some people have similar notions of god and build churches in response to that, but even in those churches, everyone forms their own image of god.

I suppose what I'm arguing is that there's something greater than gods.

As for my God, one thing I can say is that I've seen a lot of miracles in my life and I've received a lot of protection I didn't deserve, and I've been given a lot of understanding I couldn't have gotten on my own. So, I'm kind of stuck on my God.

Is my God make-believe? No, He's real. The same thing that created me created Him by creating me. It's that thing that baffles me. It's what I'm trying to illustrate philosophically and mathematically these days. I don't know if I'll succeed.

---

Why would you want to complicate things with philisophical and existential nonsense? Just live your life, it's all that is expected. I don't really contemplate the end of my life, because for the time being it isn't really all that important. I'm alive today. I exist today. What could possibly be the purpose to that beyond what purpose I give myself, what goals I set for myself?

The thundering flaw in all of theism is that it revolves around the importance of an individual. You believe in spacegods and destiny because it makes you important. Your life has meaning because some all powerful celestial being deemed your life necessary for this planet. You believe in heaven and hell because your life cannot possibly end with the end of you. It's arrogance, pure and simple masturbation of the ego to follow some fanciful notion that in an infinite universe you have some divine purpose for existing.

You and I, along with every other creature are merely insignificant specks in a larger insignificant speck in an even larger insignificant and ordinary speck amidst hundreds of billions. Do you honestly look up at the stars at night and ponder what your purpose in the face of infinity is? How do you not feel small? You and I will die, and long after you and I die our fellow species will hopefully move on to other planets and other solar systems and maybe even someday other galaxies. We will be forgotten, we will have been but a twinkle in the existence of our fair species if it survives.

But what your "purpose" should be, as should everyone else's is to make what little time you spend on this rock worth your time. Do something with your life beyond spouting incoherent rhetoric on a message board and live as if you will die tomorrow. Because you most certainly will, perhaps not the day after today. But someday you will. And you will be nothing but a picture in the minds and whisper on the lips of everyone that you leave behind. Unless you do something extraordinary or become someone extraordinary you will dwell amongst the rest of us as mere ordinary mortals. So wake up every morning happy, go to bed every night content, and never stop moving yourself forward. Because once you move past all of the dogma and theological nonsense your life will either have been completed by the steps you have taken, or it will have been an uneventful intermission to the time before you were born and the time after you are gone. You are guaranteed a very short stay on this tiny rock floating in a void. What you do with it is yours to choose, how you live your short life is yours to choose. But don't follow the lives of so many who came before us and live your life expecting some reward at the end of it, some glimpse at immortality after your time here has ended. I can tell you it is almost certain that you will be sorely disappointed.

That's a very eloquent post. Thank you for writing it on my behalf. It sounds like the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible. But if you're right, happiness is impossible because life and consciousness and the formation of a person who could write what you just did is a waste. We become aware, we go extinct. Actually, only a god could be that cruel to us.

But I do believe we cease to exist when we die. The difference, I would argue, is that we cease to exist the same way we ceased to exist as a small child.

For instance, I had a memory yesterday of something I said to my mother when I was five. I remembered it clearly for some reason, and it struck me that the person who said that to my mother was not the same person remembering it. The boy had ceased to exist a long time ago.

As for purpose, I would concede that it may not be possible to willfully follow a purpose in life. We have a purpose, each and everyone of us, but it comes to us automatically and deterministically. Some people are born for the prison yard, some people cure polio.

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But hey, at least you didn't claim that atheists don't believe in God because they want to sin. That would be both wrong and incredibly stupid. Especially since atheists don't bother with any concept of sin, and despite that, (if the statistics of America's prisons are any indication) they're probably better behaved than Christians anyway.

Oh let's be honest here for a minute. A lot of people are atheists because they don't like the moral restrictions placed on them by the Church, especially in regards to abortion and homosexuality. But having said that, a lot of people are atheists because the moral hypocrisy of the church is simply too disgusting for them to endure, especially if they've been a victim of it.

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One thread you could start is an explanation about your views on Cosmology.

Interesting you should say that: your avatar is a little topology graphic, and I'm convinced that the mathematical key to my theory of cosmology rests in a kind of relative topology. But I'm a way's off on that, unfortunately.

[Nitsuj]

You ask how do I know I'm not believing in the wrong god? How could I be? It's my God.

Everyone has their own god, even atheists have their own god, they simply don't differentiate between the thing they see in the mirror and God. Other people externalize god, like me. Some people have similar notions of god and build churches in response to that, but even in those churches, everyone forms their own image of god.

No. That's simply not true. Atheists DO NOT have an image of God. If we did, we wouldn't be atheists. Why is the basic concept of atheism so hard for people to understand?