A question for Christians who accept evolution.

[Zen Badger]

If god is "omniscient and omnipotent" as you claim then how is it that he doesn't know that bats are mammals, not birds?

The classification system by which bats are considered mammels was invented in 1735 and the Bible was written a long time before that.

Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/g...y/bat-bird

That article is basically admitting that the the bible is not the inerrant word of god after all, that it is just the words of erring men. Either that, or god is so stupid he had to wait until human science came along so he could work out that what he had created was mammalian, not avian.

There is a looooong list of animals that god considers to be abominations, if so, why did he create them in the first place?
When he created the world there was no distinction between clean and unclean animals. The world and everything in it have been changed as a result of Adam's sin.

So in order to punish Adam, god decides to randomly punish innocent animals as well.

Your arguments get less and less convincing all the time.

But keep it up buddy, they're entertaining at least.

[theophilus]

The issue I find more difficult for Christians who believe in evolution, to live with is the process they through which Darwin identifies evolution working. Natural Selection.
This process is particularly cruel it relies on suffering of organisms as the means of enabling progress and survival.
The designer of such a process (if he,she or it existed) would surely be classified as a sadist not a loving all caring deity.

I agree with you completely about this. I used to believe in evolution because I thought that it had been scientifically proven. One of the reasons I finally rejected it is the realization that God wouldn't have used a method of creation that entailed so much death and suffering. The other reason is that I found out that in fact evolution has not actually been proven true and there are alternate explanations for all the evidence which claims to prove it.

The fact that there is suffering and death in the world now is that it is the consequence of Adam's sin. God placed the world under his authority and his sin has affected it.

So how come your all-knowing god didn't know that would happen? He sounds like a complete shmuck.

He did know it would happen and allowed it because he intends to use it to bring about good.

That article is basically admitting that the the bible is not the inerrant word of god after all, that it is just the words of erring men. Either that, or god is so stupid he had to wait until human science came along so he could work out that what he had created was mammalian, not avian

Calling bats mammals rather than birds is simply a human system of classification. God doesn't classify things the way we do.

[Tiberius]

I used to believe in evolution because I thought that it had been scientifically proven.

There is no such thing as "scientific proof". It is a misnomer. Nothing in science is ever proven; only established as very probable through the construction and testing of hypotheses, which become theories upon validation.

Gravity hasn't been scientifically proven, nor have the laws of thermodynamics, the Big Bang theory, or *insert theory here*.

Yes, there are alternative ideas to explain the evidence, but none of them explain all of the evidence. There are always problems and gaps that just don't match what we observe in reality. The theory of evolution is the only theory to date that explains all the evidence in a justifiable way.

By the way, your "realization" that God wouldn't have created the world through death and suffering just reveals your bias and closed-mindedness on this issue. Have you considered that God didn't create the world, and that therefore there are no problems that evolution poses?

[Minimalist]

He did know it would happen and allowed it because he intends to use it to bring about good.

Then your god is a fucking asshole.

[Peter44]

I used to believe in evolution because I thought that it had been scientifically proven.

There is no such thing as "scientific proof". It is a misnomer. Nothing in science is ever proven; only established as very probable through the construction and testing of hypotheses, which become theories upon validation.

Gravity hasn't been scientifically proven, nor have the laws of thermodynamics, the Big Bang theory, or *insert theory here*.

Yes, there are alternative ideas to explain the evidence, but none of them explain all of the evidence. There are always problems and gaps that just don't match what we observe in reality. The theory of evolution is the only theory to date that explains all the evidence in a justifiable way.

By the way, your "realization" that God wouldn't have created the world through death and suffering just reveals your bias and closed-mindedness on this issue. Have you considered that God didn't create the world, and that therefore there are no problems that evolution poses?

Very well put.

Science is not about proof. Proof is impossible.
All we can ask for is support, thats evidence to support theories that are well stated and capable of falsification.

The theory of evolution was produced at a time when there was very little experimental evidence to support it.

Everything produced since Darwin has supported Darwin even the mechanism by which evolution can works genetically something Darwin had no idea of (although he knew of Mendel's works) yet he produced a theory that has been supported by every reasonable piece of scientific research since.

The work of Darwin just cant be underestimated.

Science isn't about 'proof' but it is about using evidence and questioning any theory that has no evidence or ignores evidence.

Explanation without evidence is ignorant.

Therefore a belief without evidence is ignorant.

[Watson]

We are created in God's image; that is, with all the tools and opportunities(that's called fate, little ones!) to be close to Him and one with Him. Our nature is sinful, however, because we use our perceived seperation from God as an excuse to do bad things. Jesus said to God "Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do." And that is entirely true. We just don't realize how bad we are and Jesus forgave us for that.

[Captain Scarlet]

We are created in God's image; that is, with all the tools and opportunities(that's called fate, little ones!) to be close to Him and one with Him. Our nature is sinful, however, because we use our perceived seperation from God as an excuse to do bad things. Jesus said to God "Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do." And that is entirely true. We just don't realize how bad we are and Jesus forgave us for that.

Speak for yourself Watson i am a nice bloke, unlike god. If youthink of yourself as a wretched sinner that's your bag not mine.

[Watson]

No, I'm perfectly certain that you are a nice fellow, Cap'n Scarlet. And although I am a cynical bastrd, I am too. We'd probably get along quite well in real life! Unless your qhole shtick is not to hang around Christians.

[fr0d0]

The idea that a blood sacrifice is needed for the "faults" of humanity from birth is a rather dehumanizing notion. I find nothing uplifting or good from a religion that promotes the idea that humans are naturally terrible people and in order to make it better, someone must suffer and die to satisfy god.

Eloquently put my Queen.

There is the idea, and I think it myself often, that humans are perfect, warts and all. This is quite different from stating that humans are without flaws. the point of xtianity is to address those real flaws and enable us to be confident, fully functioning people to the maximum of our potential.

To draw a line under our nature and say that this is all we're capable of sells us way short.

[Zen Badger]

Calling bats mammals rather than birds is simply a human system of classification. God doesn't classify things the way we do.

Yes, the system of classification that would be used by a bunch of goat molesting desert wanderers.

So you are admitting that the the bible is indeed just the words of men.

And if that is the case then the only evidence() you have for your god just went out the window.