Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting

[Mister Agenda]

Except the 90% of Sunnis are far from united or monolithic. So there's that. Did you know that most Sunni-majority countries don't have the death penalty for homosexuality? What could possibly be the explanation for this deviation from Sunni High Command?

citation please. Because as I have read/referenced Homosexuality is a sin that is indeed punishable by death in all 4 forms of the Sunni jurisprudence. Some allow a simple 100 lash beating for first offenders, but none take death off the table. Even the more merciful (100 lash version) prescribe death if caught again.. the others mainly differ on the way homosexuals are supposed to die. none of which is by old age in your own bed.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

Citation: Google 'countries with the death penalty for homosexuality'. There are 49 majority Muslim countries. Ten countries have the death penalty for homosexuality (Yemen, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (no known death sentences since 2001), Somalia (in some southern regions), Sudan (in the North, with a three-strike rule), and the UAE (so not enforced that they're not sure if they have the death penalty for homosexuality or not). Iran is majority Shia and Nigeria is majority Christian, so that's eight of 48 Sunni-majority countries. 40 out of 48 is 'most'.

I like how you referred to your reading as your source of authority, as if Muslims have to conform to your links and interpretations of their scriptures. Given that you're claiming that Sunni Islam is so centrally controlled, you seem to have a paradox on your hands.

[rexbeccarox]

What is your evidence that the shooter carried out the shooting due to what the imam said?

If a Christian were to shoot up a nightclub full of homosexuals and someone linked you to one of the many sermons Christian pastors have made calling for the death of homosexuals, you would be singing a completely different tune, I have no doubt.

Never mind. I already know how you're going to answer.

It's in the 911 transcripts. He was waging jihad against the infidels of the west. He also called a news show and we in orlando got to hear alot more than the rest of you, the FBI has since seized that recording. (he read off a manifesto that outlines his reasons for the attacks) Apparently he mirrored everything he said to the news outlet to 911, but it all has been censored.. the local Orlando paper is in a law suit against the FBI and the state to have that stuff re released. He does not mention this Imam by name but apparently his reasoning is the same.

The rest of whom? I'm currently in Leesburg; local news comes out of Orlando. I get just as much information as you do.

I asked, specifically, where your evidence is that the shooter was listening to the particular imam to whom you're glomming. I don't question the fact that the shooter was pledging to the IS- in fact, I think that's probably why he did it: to try to avail himself of his own homosexuality; I'm questioning why in the hell you think it's any different from the Christian pastors who also call for the murder of homosexuals. An even more relevant analogy to Christians in the US: bombing abortion clinics... in the name of Christianity. Where is your open condemnation of those Christians? Protestant (Sunni) or Catholic (Shiite): your choice.

Again, if the shoe were on the other foot the rest of christianity would condemn this act as being a ultra right wing legalistic nut job,

Where are the hoards of Christians condemning the bombing of abortion clinics?

as Christianity is splintered and we do go far right as we also go far left. Islam does not do this. Their ultra right wing nut jobs are apart of their base (sunni) sect. and again 90% of all muslims are sunni. this means the Imam who speaks to the isis fighter can also rightfully speak to Muslims here and be well received.

And Christian pastors can't? Bullshit.

To them those fighting in a jihad are nothing more than how a christian would look at a missionary. self less devoted and a true dedicated servant of God. they are not shunned nor frown upon by the muslim community unless you forcably hold their feet to the fire, and in which case they have permission to lie about their beliefs if they are out numbered and believe the truth will cause them harm.

You can't be serious. I bet for every Christian condemning the act of abortion clinic bombing, I can find at least one Muslim condemning the night club shooting, the one in San Bernardino or any other.

[Mister Agenda]

Does this 'central authority' have a name? Sunni High Command? How do they keep sects like the Ahmadis or Ismailis from forming? No, wait, they can't do a damn thing about it because they don't exist. Any Imam can preach his own interpretation of Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_leaders

I'm sorry are you under the impression that the Ahmadis and or the Ismailis are branched off the Sunni sect? First of all the Ahmadiyya are not muslim as they do not believe mo-hammy was the final prophet of God. they follow the teaching of some other goat man who came after.

To answer your question, The Leadership of the sunni 'control' sub sects from froming by KILLING the 'apostate/heretics.' That is why 90% of all muslims are Sunni, because no one in the that sect has any other choice. That is also why Pakistan and even those in Iran are fighting ISIS (sunni Islam) because they too are under the threat of extinction by the sunni as most of them are Shia, which does contain many, many divisions/sub sects like the Ismailis.

But again, the vast majority of islam is not shia it is sunni, which includes the members of ISIS and most muslims in the US and Europe.

That's why there's Universal Sufism, Quranism (ditch the hadiths), Imams who support separation of government and religion, Islamic Modernism; and groups like Muslims for Progressive Values and the Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity. Because of the absolute control of the Central Authority of Islam.

Not in the Sunni sect which is what i am talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam

Everything you said is correct... but it is correct about shia islam not the sunnis. There is a leadership structure and the Imams of Sunni Islam are well versed and well rehearsed. They speak as one if they are sunni.

What do you think fuels and funds ISIS? are you of the Obama camp in trying to disregard them as a "rag tag bunch of trouble makers?" the "JV team?" To assemble, fund and support a fighting force that size despite the best efforts of the West, and to call it the ISLAMIC STATE Demands a strong organized support structure. despite what you think you've been told about them, or what you tell yourself so you can sleep at night.

I am sorry you think I thought both those sects split from Sunni Islam when it was just the Ahmadiyya that did. Are you the authority on whether a sect is Muslim or not? You won't find 'believe Mohammed is the final prophet' in the Five Pillars of Islam.

You really think a religious orthodoxy can control 1.5 billion adherents? That none of the organizations I mentioned are composed mostly of Sunnis? That 'kill the apostate' crap may fly in Saudi Arabia or Yemen; but not in Muslim majority countries like Albania, Bosnia, Turkey (or ex-Soviet 'Turkic' countries like Kazakhstan), or Morocco. And many of those fighting ISIS are Sunnis. You better get in touch with Sunni High Command and tell them to get their act together. You know those Kurds so famous for fighting ISIS? Mostly Sunnis. Turkish forces? Mostly Sunnis. It's almost like no one is really in charge of Sunni Muslims.

[Veritas_Vincit]

"It is finished" does not mean the same as "Now that I am dead everything that God said to Moses is now null and void." "It" is not specified, but in the context of him being crucified to death, it seems more likely to mean his ordeal, or his whole life.

In the sermon on the moutn, Jesus didn't say "...until I am dead." he said "...until all heaven and earth have passed."

This seems like you aren't joining the dots, you're adding extra dots to draw what you want to see. I don't buy it.

That's not what Christ said... He said the law will remain as long as the earth remain, BUT IT SHALL NOT BE CHANGED in the least little way till all is complete. Meaning once "all if complete/it is finished (on the cross) the law is open for change even though it remains. And it does remain as all the unsaved are judged against what the laws says. Christ offers freedom from the law through atonement. which would not be necessary if he abolished the law. No the law has to remain in order for atonement to work, In order for their to be a separation from the saved and unsaved. If Christ abolished the law then all would be saved, but again not the case. Only those who accepts the atonement offered are saved from the law and the consequences the law demands..

Otherwise again if Christ meant to say what you think this passage in Mat 5 means, then their could be no gentile believers. animals still had to be sacrificed for sins, and their would have to be a temple... In other words your interpretation of mat 5 does not account for the changes and difference that have always separated OT Judaism and NT Christianity. this is not a new thing. The changes started immediately after the death and resurrection of Christ.

How else with your understanding of Mat 5 can you account for the differences between Christianity and OT Judaism?

Look - theologically, maybe this is how you understand it. The Christians and the Jews just disagree but...

Please tell me you don't actually believe any of that is real?

I mean, I'm sorry but when you string it all together like that - you've got animal sacrifice, you've got vicarious redemption through human sacrifice. Abdication of moral accountability through blind faith and servile obedience...

This is crazy. Bonkers. This religion is just absolutely insane. It's fucking stupid, I mean, how can anyone actually believe this stuff?! This is bat shit certifiable delusion.

I really feel bad about the future prospects for the human species when you think that people actually think this is the world they live in.

[Minimalist]

It's happened in the last month following Orlando. There were far-right Christians coming out the woodwoork all over the place to praise the attack. The day after Orlando, a white boy (presumably a Christian) was caught heading towards L.A Gay Pride with explosives and guns planning to blow it up.

Homosexuality has only become legalised in most Western countries within the last 60 years too. This has not happened because of The West's benign Christian religion, it's happened through secularism at the expense of Christian extremism (which is as barbaric, violent and abusive as Islamic fundamentalism). It's not that there are no longer Priests, Bishops and even candidates for The Papacy that believe homosexuality should be punishable by death, it's that they're not allowed to air those views in the 21st Century without an educated, rational, secular society charging them with hate speech. When the Muslim world eventually wakes up and does the same to their Imams and Islamic "scholars", their situation with human rights is going to improve too.

Bishops and popes moron bishops and popes...

As in when was the last time a bishop or pope (someone in leadership authority of a very large mass of religious followers) demanded the death or genocide of a specific group in the name of Jesus Christ?

How many of these would you like?  There are plenty.

In 1801 Orthodox priests in Bucharest, Romania, revived the story that Jews sacrificed Christians and drank their blood. Enraged parishioners stormed the ghetto and cut the throats of 128 Jews.

[Brian37]

Islam is not a race, but that doesn't mean some people don't hate Muslims out of racism.

Right, Islamophobia is not inherently racist, but it's often driven by racism. There's a lot of overlap between racists and Islamophobes, and it's not a coincidence. And I'm not sure how profound the difference between 'racist' and 'religious bigot' is supposed to be.

Racism is a result of religion. Not just one but all, worldwide. When you(meaning I) get called a racist by a Hindu from India who gets pissed when you post a link to atheist born in India, NOT ME, but people born there who simply did what many former Christians and Muslims have done, and came to the same conclusions I have that all religions are products of human's imaginations, you understand that religion is the cause. 

NO NO NO, racism most certainly DOES exist.  But religion is the excuse everyone uses to ignore that we are NOT a separate species.

Religion is not a race, it should not be treated as such. Religion is not blood based, for if evolution required a skin tone and a religious label for our species to survive, there would be no migration or mixing and the scientific reality is that the migration and mixing has always happened. "Pure" and "true" don't exist in reality.

[Drich]

That's not, in any way, different than your own divine laws...so why bitch about it...oh yea king of the tq?

What are you talking about?

That is exactly what our 'divine laws' state, that sinners be left to God to judge and for us not to play God ourselves.

[Drich]

Bishops and popes moron bishops and popes...

As in when was the last time a bishop or pope (someone in leadership authority of a very large mass of religious followers) demanded the death or genocide of a specific group in the name of Jesus Christ?

Bishop, Pope, Priest, Deacon, the fuck does it matter?

AUTHORITY OVER A LARGE MASS MORON!!!
Holy crap how can you be so blind as to not see this???

What is the difference between a west borough baptist minister's decree to kill gays, and a sunni muslim Imam? well the obvious the WBB minister is speaking to maybe 30 members (most of which are family/related) the Imam is speaking to 1.62 BILLION people. The Imam has Authority to make such a demand/decree as in the OP video, and over that span of 1.62 billion people let's say only .25% are mentally disturbed enough or in their terms "have been bless to the higher calling of Jihad" are ready to act on what they have been commissioned to do. that means 4,500,000 people are willing to do what the orlando shooter did, or the boston bombers did..

Maybe where you come from 4 and 1/2 million people is a small number, but to everyone else it is not. that is a standing army that will change the literal and geopolitical landscape of this planet affecting every person on this planet in one way or another.

So then now ask yourself how many out of a congergation of 30 nut bag WBB do you think uncle grandpa phelps can get to shoot up a night club??? So far in the history of that church 0

Can you see the dots connected draw a bigger picture yet?

It means more when the leader of a very large world wide sect makes a declaration, and if leaders of the same world wide sect denounce these types of actions as the Pope has.

They're still representatives of The Church. And it doesn't invalidate anything I said. To think that Christianity is some benign "religion of peace" just because it's now (in the 20th and 21st Centuries) relatively less violent than Islam is jejune.

oh, you mean like comparing a congregation of literally 30 members to a world wide organization that boasts numbers of over 1.5 billion simply because you can technically define the leader of the congregation of 30 and the Imam over an entire region (incharge of the doctrine of thousands if not 100's of thousands of people) both as a 'religious leaders.'

And just because leaders of Christianity "only" oppose LGBT marriage instead of actively advocating for death as a punishment doesn't make them "progressive" either. It's not even just about gay people, we still have contemporary Popes and other leaders opposing abortion and womens' agency of their reproduction. Even if it's not "violent", that's a problem.

Are you seriously saying lawfully and legally opposing people through the proper channels set fourth in this countries bylaws, is the same as shooting/killing 100 people in a nigh club, flying planes into buildings, blowing up airports, murdering an entire news paper's staff FOR DRAWING CARTOONS of someone No one knows what he looks like?!?!?! Do I need to go on?

Are yoou SOOO F*ing foolish as to compare the 'threat' you perceive from Christianity, for lawfully opposing you politically as being anywhere comparable to acts of terrorism Islam rains down on the west? Just how brain washed are you to hate Christians that you are comparing someone saying they dislike the idea of gay marriage as being on par with someone who got orders from their religion to literally kill gay people???

unbelievable..

[Drich]

citation please. Because as I have read/referenced Homosexuality is a sin that is indeed punishable by death in all 4 forms of the Sunni jurisprudence. Some allow a simple 100 lash beating for first offenders, but none take death off the table. Even the more merciful (100 lash version) prescribe death if caught again.. the others mainly differ on the way homosexuals are supposed to die. none of which is by old age in your own bed.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

Citation: Google 'countries with the death penalty for homosexuality'. There are 49 majority Muslim countries. Ten countries have the death penalty for homosexuality (Yemen, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (no known death sentences since 2001), Somalia (in some southern regions), Sudan (in the North, with a three-strike rule), and the UAE (so not enforced that they're not sure if they have the death penalty for homosexuality or not). Iran is majority Shia and Nigeria is majority Christian, so that's eight of 48 Sunni-majority countries. 40 out of 48 is 'most'.

I like how you referred to your reading as your source of authority, as if Muslims have to conform to your links and interpretations of their scriptures. Given that you're claiming that Sunni Islam is so centrally controlled, you seem to have a paradox on your hands.

Funny I did your google search and found the washington post story you referenced, but I also found several others as well.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patr...amic-death
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-...s-illegal/
In the Cnsnews article lists 13 Countries where death is indeed the state's responsiblity, however the following article mentions a list of other countries where people who kill homosexuals are not prosecuted for murder. Meaning in these muslims countries it is not a matter of the state to hold a trial, and convict a suspected homosexual. they seem to be content with Islam sponsored lynch mobs.


as far as using my sources as a point of authority.. You don't seem to understand that the source material is repersentive of what 90% HAVE TO think about any given subject. You are confusing how Christianity works verses how Sunni Islam works. There is no freedom of interpretation here. That is why the vast majority of muslims will not outright condemn terrorism, unless they feel intimidated or threatened by you. (as it is then their right to lie to you about what they believe) Otherwise they fear reprisal by the community at large or in certain regions they fear death. That is the reason sunni islam repersents 90% of all muslims. As the kill/beat those who do not comply. think dark ages Christianity and you might find yourself 1/2 there concerning devotion and fanatical no questions allowed belief.

[Drich]

It's in the 911 transcripts. He was waging jihad against the infidels of the west. He also called a news show and we in orlando got to hear alot more than the rest of you, the FBI has since seized that recording. (he read off a manifesto that outlines his reasons for the attacks) Apparently he mirrored everything he said to the news outlet to 911, but it all has been censored.. the local Orlando paper is in a law suit against the FBI and the state to have that stuff re released. He does not mention this Imam by name but apparently his reasoning is the same.

The rest of whom? I'm currently in Leesburg; local news comes out of Orlando. I get just as much information as you do.

then I do not have to tell you 96.5 suspended their normal broadcast scheduled for two weeks to given minute by minute up dates, eyewitness interviews, and they reported on things (like what the eyewitness the shooter was saying his motivations were) at least a week before i heard anything on national news.

So, there's that.

Then there is idk.. THE OP... or did you pick that up already on cnn?

I asked, specifically, where your evidence is that the shooter was listening to the particular imam to whom you're glomming.

AND IT TOLD YOU THIS SPEAKER REPRESENTS SUNNI ISLAM
Do you not understand what this means?

 I don't question the fact that the shooter was pledging to the IS- in fact, I think that's probably why he did it: to try to avail himself of his own homosexuality;

Which is apart of the Imam's message of atonement/forgiveness for homosexuals.

I'm questioning why in the hell you think it's any different from the Christian pastors who also call for the murder of homosexuals.

Because again Christian pastors who do this can be identified as nut jobs and dismissed... their congregation totals reflect their nut jobbery.

The difference here is, what is being taught by this Imam is Mainstream Sunni Islam. So instead of poisoning maybe a couple a dozen fanatics in hopes one or two will act, they have billions of ripe minds to plant their hate into. It is just a matter of time before another "Mateen" (Muslim struggling with a sin that demands death/Or someone who see the western world as evil) takes a similar route and strikes out against a society that has 'poisoned' his mind.

An even more relevant analogy to Christians in the US: bombing abortion clinics... in the name of Christianity. Where is your open condemnation of those Christians? Protestant (Sunni) or Catholic (Shiite): your choice.

Which again the point you do not understand as Christianity is splintered I and the majority of Christianity can say bombing any clinic is wrong and against the religion... They Can't say that. or at least 90% can't say that. Why? They have a clear directive to do this very thing if God puts it on their hearts to do it!!!

Do you still not see the difference from a ultra right wing fanatic and a mainstream act of terror?

It means under the right conditions EVERY Sunni Muslim 1.62 billion is a potential sleeper agent. Verse a hand full of wack jobs..

This is the difference between fighting a a hand full of people verse fighting 1/4 of the planet's population.

Again, if the shoe were on the other foot the rest of christianity would condemn this act as being a ultra right wing legalistic nut job,

Where are the hoards of Christians condemning the bombing of abortion clinics?

On the news, on youtube, Here is the Arch bishop of north america and a few other all condemning that very act...
http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-121.shtml
http://www.osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/495...iller.aspx
http://religionnews.com/2015/11/30/anti-...he-family/

as Christianity is splintered and we do go far right as we also go far left. Islam does not do this. Their ultra right wing nut jobs are apart of their base (sunni) sect. and again 90% of all muslims are sunni. this means the Imam who speaks to the isis fighter can also rightfully speak to Muslims here and be well received.

And Christian pastors can't? Bullshit.

Ok, then what is the 'christian version' of Isis? If their is no Christian version then how can one speak to both?

To them those fighting in a jihad are nothing more than how a christian would look at a missionary. self less devoted and a true dedicated servant of God. they are not shunned nor frown upon by the muslim community unless you forcably hold their feet to the fire, and in which case they have permission to lie about their beliefs if they are out numbered and believe the truth will cause them harm.

You can't be serious. I bet for every Christian condemning the act of abortion clinic bombing, I can find at least one Muslim condemning the night club shooting, the one in San Bernardino or any other.

Not a Sunni.. Remember they if forced by permission of their religion can tell you/lie about what ever you want to hear.
Again for them Jihad is the most respected of 4 hadiths (ways of muslims life/juseprudence) and a martyr his supreme of all jihadists.. For them to disavow the work of a jihadi martyr in their own hearts is to put their souls in hell.