Lucifer

[purplepurpose]

If you dont have capacity to become bad person, your robot - dead.

But a good designer can still give the ability to choose between good outcomes without making an unthinking robot .....

An example is pain, for example when you may want to hurt yourself .... pain dissuades you from putting your hand in a fire without removing the choice .... that could be extended to or upgraded to empathy, etc .....

A good designer has choices, doesn't appear the fictional God thought about it, probably because he is a fantasy ....

We regret after doing bad stuff(pain). Criminals because of very miserable life very fast bypass that part because they are angry at the world for all the misery they experienced.

[madog]

But a good designer can still give the ability to choose between good outcomes without making an unthinking robot .....

An example is pain, for example when you may want to hurt yourself .... pain dissuades you from putting your hand in a fire without removing the choice .... that could be extended to or upgraded to empathy, etc .....

A good designer has choices, doesn't appear the fictional God thought about it, probably because he is a fantasy ....

We regret after doing bad stuff(pain). Criminals because of very miserable life very fast bypass that part because they are angry at the world for all the misery they experienced.

But that just emphasizes the bad design .... the "(pain)" comes after .... If I really wanted something from the flames and the "pain" came after I might go ahead and try and get it regardless of the "pain" to come later .... But to put my hand in when the pain is immediate is a different matter ....

[purplepurpose]

We regret after doing bad stuff(pain). Criminals because of very miserable life very fast bypass that part because they are angry at the world for all the misery they experienced.

But that just emphasizes the bad design .... the "(pain)" comes after .... If I really wanted something from the flames and the "pain" came after I might go ahead and try and get it regardless of the "pain" to come later .... But to put my hand in when the pain is immediate is a different matter ....

If there was immediate pain on drugs and murder, than you wouldnt be able to those things, which would also cripple your free will to become evil.

[madog]

But that just emphasizes the bad design .... the "(pain)" comes after .... If I really wanted something from the flames and the "pain" came after I might go ahead and try and get it regardless of the "pain" to come later .... But to put my hand in when the pain is immediate is a different matter ....

If there was immediate pain on drugs and murder, than you wouldnt be able to those things, which would also cripple your free will to become evil.

So you think free will is the choice to do evil? Pretty fucked up design where you program something so it won't harm itself but can harm others.

So your argument is that a design that has safe guards to dissuade self harm is free will and a design that has safeguards to dissuade harming others isn't free will?

I would call that evolution, harming yourself could limit the ability to pass on your genes, harming someone else could increase your ability to pass on your genes ....

[robvalue]

I can be a bad person if I want. I just don't want to.

Also, I can choose between different ways of being good. So I'm no robot. There aren't simply 2 choices in any situation. Binary religious thinking.

[Drich]

So... working at your job you never once thought this place would shut down without me? Or I could do this myself, and put this place out of business?

Have you ever looked at someone who you thought was a little less than you/your station in life and wonder why they seemed to be doing better? Ever want something not yours?

Coveting God/what God has was Lucifer's core sin.

Yah...I know what covet means.

Sure, I've entertained such thoughts in passing, in regards to the first two questions, at least. Never once organized an army of colleagues and attempted an actual takeover of the company, though. 
That's not what I was getting at, anyhow. I was relaying my impression that there are limits to Biblical God's capabilities.

Christians generally convey otherwise, but I disagree.

But you do understand there are those who more agressivly 'covet' or at the very least think way too highly of themselves... and if one were to compound that over a few thousand years (working a job when you feel as if you have what it takes to own the place) something is bound to happen.

Look at the civil war.. same kind of thing happened there where in the southern most states thought they could make a better go of being a nation than what the rest of the union could provide. And... it didn't take a few thousand years for them to act.

Considering all things, If you were a believer/one of the angels who had to make a choice (stay with God or rebel) I looks as if your temperament would have had you make the same decision 2/3 of the angelic host made. You did not understand Lucifer's desire to break or knew it would fail so you stayed with God..

[lisah]

What exactly have you seen happen?

 I was peaking of Lucifer. I have seen Christians punished for trying to undo God' work in a church.

GC

What work was it, and how were they punished?

[purplepurpose]

If there was immediate pain on drugs and murder, than you wouldnt be able to those things, which would also cripple your free will to become evil.

So you think free will is the choice to do evil? Pretty fucked up design where you program something so it won't harm itself but can harm others.

So your argument is that a design that has safe guards to dissuade self harm is free will and a design that has safeguards to dissuade harming others isn't free will?

I would call that evolution, harming yourself could limit the ability to pass on your genes, harming someone else could increase your ability to pass on your genes ....

Why are we programmed to survive?

[madog]

So you think free will is the choice to do evil? Pretty fucked up design where you program something so it won't harm itself but can harm others.

So your argument is that a design that has safe guards to dissuade self harm is free will and a design that has safeguards to dissuade harming others isn't free will?

I would call that evolution, harming yourself could limit the ability to pass on your genes, harming someone else could increase your ability to pass on your genes ....

Why are we programmed to survive?

Already answered, to pass on our genes ..... and it isn't programming it is those with genes with the strongest desire to survive passing on their genes more often .... Go read about evolution and put down your fairy book ....

[robvalue]

Loaded terms. We're not literally "programmed", at least there is no evidence that this is the case.

We are good at surviving because we're descended from animals that survived. Self selecting, natural selection. We have adapted to our environment over huge numbers of generations.

Like madog says, if you actually want to learn about this and aren't just throwing out what you think are "gotcha" questions, the information is readily available. Study evolution.