If free will was not real

[Edwardo Piet]

Then you should understand that free will is the free choice we each have to decide.

Wow I'm convinced(!)

"How are our choices free?"

"Because our choices are free!"

[Paraselene]

You are confusing terms, and it is frustrating.

Free will has absolutely nothing to do with determinism under a secular point of view.

I am free to go left or right. I have the will to go left or right. I have the free will to go left or right. Now do you get it?

[Edwardo Piet]

Free will has absolutely nothing to do with determinism under a secular point of view.

No, you're confusing terms. Whether you believe determinism is compatible with free will or not has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I've debated this for years, determinism is not religious predeterminism. When I speak of "predetermined" I mean the word "predetermined" I am not talking about predeterminism, I am speaking of determinism. I never said "predeterminism" I said only "predetermined" and "determinism."

Determinism is the philosophical doctrine that all events transpire in virtue of some necessity and are therefore inevitable. Traditionally, the view relies on strict notions of causality, and most philosophical arguments in its favor have attempted at clear definitions of cause and effect as a basis for the belief that determinism is true. Notably, the idea that the past choices of seemingly rational agents could have been performed differently - or even the idea that the future decisions of such agents will turn out to be other than what they will - is usually challenged under this view. Thus, the "problem" of free will - or the idea of free will as being an "illusion" - often arises as a result of the main claim made by determinism, that is, that the past, present, and future is identifiable with an essentially unbreakable chain of circumstances of which no single link in such a chain could possibly be avoided or altered. Some determinists deny the idea of any true "possibility" or "randomness" within reality altogether, even asserting that such ideas are only a creation of the mind and/or merely the result of imagination - ultimately a result of ignorance in the face of real explanations for such phenomena - which could otherwise, in principle, be discovered by either reason or empirical experimentation

None of this has anything to do with religion.

This article is about the general notion of determinism in philosophy. For other uses, see Determinism (disambiguation).

Not to be confused with Fatalism, Predeterminism, Predictability, or Theological determinism.

(my bolding)

[quip]

Exactly what is gained by the adding "free" to the concept of will (other than intentional obfuscation)? We all have a will, held within the limits of specific contingencies. Simply put, I'm not free to post upon this forum if not for another's past decision to create it...which, in turn, was created via its own set of contingencies....ad nauseum.

[Excited Penguin]

Bullshit. I was either predetermined to post here or I wasn't. Either way ultimately the laws of the universe made me do it.

You're talking like a theist acting like we're beyond the laws of the universe!

Unless you are redefining free will to basically cover the willpower us humans already have that no one doubts anyway, like those silly compatabilists.

Oh, do I love this. 

[Excited Penguin]

You made the choice to post here, thus you had the free will to post.

Too many people confuse free will with religious bullshit, when free will is just the free will to choose your own path.

So... free will is free will? Yeah, that makes sense. But then again, what is this free will you talk about? Is it made of some sort of chemical? Does it have atoms? Where can I find it? Can I touch it? Do tell.

[brewer]

For me, free will exists on a sliding scale and the amount changes from situation to situation. The idea of any amount of free will in the face of an omniscient god is an illusion.

[Excited Penguin]

For me, free will exists on a sliding scale and the amount changes from situation to situation. The idea of any amount of free will in the face of an omniscient god is an illusion.

Yes, but my question is who is Will and why does everyone keep talking about his freedom?

[Edwardo Piet]

For me, free will exists on a sliding scale and the amount changes from situation to situation. The idea of any amount of free will in the face of an omniscient god is an illusion.

Yes, but my question is who is Will and why does everyone keep talking about his freedom?

What?! You don't know will?!

[Paraselene]

Oh, look, I found the free will to post here again.