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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 20, 2016 at 9:25 am
Interesting answers, thanks everyone 
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 20, 2016 at 11:43 am
I gotta say, I feel sorry for a 3/4 year old who gets a philosophical lecture about epistemology and historical accuracy rather than just some simple pointers.
Seriously, do theists have this talk with their children? Have any of them? I'm starting to worry that they don't. I know what we have here isn't representative, of course.
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 20, 2016 at 2:09 pm
(July 20, 2016 at 11:43 am)robvalue Wrote: I gotta say, I feel sorry for a 3/4 year old who gets a philosophical lecture about epistemology and historical accuracy rather than just some simple pointers.
Seriously, do theists have this talk with their children? Have any of them? I'm starting to worry that they don't. I know what we have here isn't representative, of course.
An age wasn't given before, and of course, the age of the child is going to make a difference, in how you approach the subject. However; I don't think that because you have to simplify things, that starting them off with a bad epistemology is the answer. I would think that at that age, you are more likely to be explaining the difference between fact and fiction, and that fiction (such as what is seen on TV) is not necessarily real (or to be repeated).
And at that age, they don't have much experience, so they largely have to trust in others anyway (including you on this).
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 20, 2016 at 9:23 pm
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2016 at 9:24 pm by bennyboy.)
(July 20, 2016 at 2:09 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: An age wasn't given before, and of course, the age of the child is going to make a difference, in how you approach the subject. However; I don't think that because you have to simplify things, that starting them off with a bad epistemology is the answer. I would think that at that age, you are more likely to be explaining the difference between fact and fiction, and that fiction (such as what is seen on TV or in the Bible) is not necessarily real (or to be repeated).
And at that age, they don't have much experience, so they largely have to trust in others anyway (including you on this).
FIFY
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 20, 2016 at 10:32 pm
I would appreciate it, if you don't insert your words into a quote of mine....actual arguments would be nice too!....
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 20, 2016 at 10:41 pm
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2016 at 10:44 pm by bennyboy.)
(July 20, 2016 at 10:32 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I would appreciate it, if you don't insert your words into a quote of mine....actual arguments would be nice too!....
I think my last post made my argument in a maximally precise way, but I'm fine with spelling it out.
You say kids are taught the difference between fact and fiction, but you will not allow them to apply critical standards to the Bible, will you? Will you really spell out the inconsistencies in the Bible and let them make of it what they will?
If you are like most Christians, you will not teach the kid to view the Bible critically. If the kid is dumb enough to ask a smart question, like "If God is good, how come little babies are born with Zika?" the spin will begin, I think. If the kid says, "How do you know God is real?" will you teach him how to distinguish fact from fiction then? Will you teach him scientific principles, and ask him to apply them to the Bible as honestly as possible?
Now, I don't mean this to attack you. But it's hard for me to see how you will teach a kid to think critically while exposing him to a system of thought that is based on faith.
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 21, 2016 at 2:44 am
Wow I read the first few posts, I now have a headache.
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 21, 2016 at 3:12 am
(July 20, 2016 at 10:41 pm)bennyboy Wrote: But it's hard for me to see how you will teach a kid to think critically while exposing him to a system of thought that is based on faith.
Ahh, the old cognitive dissonance which lives within in total comfort! Just like it's not even there! 
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 21, 2016 at 7:04 am
(This post was last modified: July 21, 2016 at 7:05 am by bennyboy.)
(July 21, 2016 at 3:12 am)ignoramus Wrote: (July 20, 2016 at 10:41 pm)bennyboy Wrote: But it's hard for me to see how you will teach a kid to think critically while exposing him to a system of thought that is based on faith.
Ahh, the old cognitive dissonance which lives within in total comfort! Just like it's not even there!
It's only cognitive dissonance when the kid has a nervous breakdown and lights his parents' bed on fire. Until then, it's just plain ol' incoherence. 
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RE: Telling fact from fiction
July 21, 2016 at 8:12 am
(July 20, 2016 at 10:41 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (July 20, 2016 at 10:32 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I would appreciate it, if you don't insert your words into a quote of mine....actual arguments would be nice too!....
I think my last post made my argument in a maximally precise way, but I'm fine with spelling it out.
You say kids are taught the difference between fact and fiction, but you will not allow them to apply critical standards to the Bible, will you? Will you really spell out the inconsistencies in the Bible and let them make of it what they will?
If you are like most Christians, you will not teach the kid to view the Bible critically. If the kid is dumb enough to ask a smart question, like "If God is good, how come little babies are born with Zika?" the spin will begin, I think. If the kid says, "How do you know God is real?" will you teach him how to distinguish fact from fiction then? Will you teach him scientific principles, and ask him to apply them to the Bible as honestly as possible?
Now, I don't mean this to attack you. But it's hard for me to see how you will teach a kid to think critically while exposing him to a system of thought that is based on faith.
It is interesting; how often here, and in similar conversations, I find that atheists tell me what I do, what my motivations are, what I believe, why... and so on. And when corrected, it is ignored (much like when evidence is given, and then it is claimed that there is no evidence).
However, to the topic at hand.... do you have a general principle that we can apply critical thinking to, for determining fact from fiction, other than the circular ones described thus far?
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