About minimum wage

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, Macy's and Target sell different products, no?

[Aractus]

So the rich people in your area get to spend less on groceries while the poor people have to spend more?

That's correct, but only true for the cities, and as mentioned IIRC the difference is only around 5-10%. Wealthy people are more likely to go out of their way to shop at a cheaper supermarket, therefore if the cheapest supermarkets were not in their areas they wouldn't shop there, and would instead go to the cheaper suburbs.

What I am mainly stating is that there are many stores from which one can choose to shop here.  All the products are the same, no matter where one shops.  All one is shopping for is the name of the establishment.

What you're saying is total BS. Are you suggesting that an Indian Supermarket sells the same products as an American supermarket? What about a Chinese supermarket? How do you define the "same" fresh produce, meat, or dairy? Anyway, in terms of "name of the establishment", no the name of the establishment does not increase the price of an identically branded supermarket product in Aust.

(edit)

I just saw this ... a BigMac in USA costs USD 0.74 more than a BigMac in Australia, despite our minimum wage being about double. So much for the argument that high minimum wage = higher prices...

The one thing that I will say is that doubling the minimum wage in USA all at once would be a huge shock to the market, I would personally think you'd have to raise it over a number of years at perhaps $2-3 per hour per year until you reach the desired level, and then index it.

[The Grand Nudger]

I just saw this ... a BigMac in USA costs USD 0.74 more than a BigMac in Australia, despite our minimum wage being about double. So much for the argument that high minimum wage = higher prices...

Same thing happens here.  Fast food joints pay between the minum and 12 nationally (there are a few areas that pay more, but they're aberrations).  They still make money selling fast food, and not just a little bit of money either - they're the best franchise opportunities on the market (that's why there's a dozen of them at every exit).  What's being proposed is a raise to 12 an hour.  Still not enough, many want 15 (which still wouldn't be enough, but meh, wouldn't wanna send anyone into shock I suppose). Looks like they could absorb that too, by reference to the cheaper australian big mac.

Do minimum wage job providers pull the suffering martyr routine over there whenever anyone talks about ceasing, for a moment, to shit on the poor?

[abaris]

Can one of you smart people explain to me why raising the minimum wage wouldn't just increase the cost of living?

First and foremost it would increase consumer power. Poor people are consumers of the first order, since they can't, by definition, sit on their money. They have to spend it to make ends meet.

Which would be a good thing, since without consume no growth. It would probably add a bit to the costs of living. But not as much as the rightwing Nemesis wants everyone to believe. A living wage for a full time job should be a human right. It was that way all through the 80ies and the early 90ies. The world and the economy didn't break down over that.

[The Grand Nudger]

A living wage for a full time job should be a human right. It was that way all through the 80ies and the early 90ies. The world and the economy didn't break down over that.

Where? Certainly not here.  Our minimum wage in:

1980 - $3.10.
1990 - $3.80. 
2000 - $5.15.
2010-  $7.25.

Adjusted for inflation, our minimum wage peaked in 1968. From 1980 to 2007, it was declining. The last three years of last decade it rose back up to be worth what it is today. Which is also when we rose it in three steps -to- what it is today, by federal law. Assholes kicking and screaming the whole way. Same arguments then, as now, as always.
https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/chart1

[abaris]

Adjusted for inflation, our minimum wage peaked in 1968.  From 1980 to 2007, it was declining.   The last three years of last decade it rose back up to be worth what it is today.  
https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/chart1

I was talking about Europe, since this is the part of the world I'm most familar with. In 1980, the equivalent of 3 Euros an hour was considered a decent wage. Today, more than 30 years later, understandably, ten Euros an hour are hardly sufficient to scrape by, considering that you have to pay taxes and social security.

[The Grand Nudger]

Roger rgr.  Here in the states, the minimum wage in '80 (of $3.10 mentioned previously) was "worth" $8.64.  Bet a minimum wage employee of today would love a "raise" like that too.

That's the funny thing about it...we hear the complaints about raising the minimum, but when you look at actual numbers it appears that the complaints are coming from an alternate reality. Amusingly, in the same timespan that the minimum wages real value has been declining -even while it;s nominal value increases, the fast food industries profits have skyrocketed. That;s both when and -how- it became what it is. Probably not a coincidence. That nmoney didn;t just appear out of nowhere. They reached into their employees pockets and took it, lol.

No wonder the franchidse model was so successful, eh? Everybody in the building was paying the franchise owner for the privilege of being there. Customers and employees. Didn;t end ther though. They got tax incentives and sweetheart real estate deals to "revitalize" an area...with a fucking mcdonalds. Then, John q taxpayer got to pay out, in welfare, what they pocketed in wages. Boohoo, poor minimum wages businesses, being put of of business.

[abaris]

That's the funny thing about it...we hear the complaints about raising the minimum, but when you look at actual numbers it appears that the complaints are coming from an alternate reality.

There are numerous charts showing how productivity and wealth distribution drifted apart - starting in the Reagan years with his trickle down bullshit. Some European politicians picked up on the same bullshit. The results were obvious. The rich earned even more while the middle class dried out. Obvious reason for that. The rich didn't invest their money to create jobs, they took it to the investment bankers or simply sat on it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Thye writing's been on the wall for sometime.  It just amazes me that we still have people, today, who buy a line that;s been a demonstrable lie for at least 36 years....36 years......maybe, before that, in the period betwen say, 68 and 80, it was less obvious...maybe they have an excuse.

We don't.  We need to boo this sort of shit off the stage, not pull a lever at a voting slot machine based upon the continued insistence that a lie will one day become reality.

Why do we fight so hard for that industry (or indeed the minimum wage model?), against the interests of the people who make ity possible? Has it ever givn us something of value, something worth protecting? Not unless you count heart disease and the obesity epidemic as pros, imo. Yay, more taxpayer money down the fucking drain. That's probably just a coincidence too, though, lol.

[abaris]

We don't.  We need to boo this sort of shit off the stage, not pull a lever at a voting slot machine based upon the continued insistence that a lie will one day become reality.

I blame it mostly on the fall of the Iron Curtain. There wasn't a competing model anymore. Before that, capitalism had to present a smiling face to keep most of the population happy and to gain attraction for those not living it.

Nowadays that's not the case anymore. There's no competition. Conservatives around the world cater to their country club friends and social democrats are afraid of being called leftists. It also gave rise to the populous rightwing by the way, since people are worse off than they were one or two decades ago and have scarce hopes for their future. Scapegoating and hate mongering thrive in this sort of climate.