Some instance I wanted to share with you

[paulpablo]

I'd hate to be a police officer: If in any way you focus on 2-3% of the population (black males under 35) that commit more murders than 38% of the population (white males under 35) then you're a racist shitlord.

Unfortunately black people will suffer more because they are murdered by their own race more than whites.

Is racial profiling groups that have demonstrably shown to be more violent worse than murder of the people of that group by the same group?  Because that's what this is coming down to.

And I'm sure you will back up all of this with stats and hard facts in an instant.

I'm still waiting for the statistics that show black people don't commit more crimes than white people that was mentioned in the other thread.

[abaris]

I agree with you about normalcy.  My point was to say that normalcy is subjective and constructed (or hammered in as you put it) and not natural.  Or put another, way, we are the ones who are constructing these biases and sense-making processes.

I can only say that the police force seems to attract people already being biased against certain groups. In the 80ies it was Eastern Europeans, which were subject to all kinds of slurs. Now it's Africans or muslims. The bias changed with the minorities coming here and the tabloids play a very large role in presenting the scapegoats of the moment.

My nephew is a film maker. Not a very prominent one, but he does scrape by. He made a short film about an instance of police brutality against an African immigrant. The man in question had been beaten within an inch of his life. To the credit of our police commanders, they approached my nephew and asked him if they could use his film in training. So they are aware of the problem and want to do something about it.

[The Grand Nudger]

-Poor- people commit more crimes, Pablo, not that there's any onus on anyone to disprove the racist assumptions you hold.  Does it matter that the vast majority of all people arrested for violent crimes in this country are white?  OFC not, you would expect it as brute force of demographics.  There simply aren't enough black people -in- this country to keep up with my caucasian criminal brethren, and so the racist is forced to resort to per capita measures. Not that these measures informed their racist assumptions in the first place - they already "knew" that black people were "more criminal" before they ever saw a single number.

This shit, is why I endeavor to exclude rather than understand.

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

Imagining that people can be talked out of whatever it is about them you don;t agree with is less than subtle condescension - as usual

Exactly.  If I preach my truth to someone else in an imposing way, then what's to stop them from doing the same? Who's to say that my truth or normalcy about any topic is more valid than those of others?  As a result, approaching difference in this manner leads to self-deception and dead ends.    

These people are who they are, accept -that-, or it's pointless to talk about acceptance and criticism.

Agreed.   People cannot be forced into dialogue; we cannot impose our way of thinking onto them. 

Some people will die before they accept this or that. That doesn't make them less mindful or advanced, nor does it make our species less mindful or advanced....and your dreams of a "more x" this or that are, in truth, no different than their dreams of racial purity.

Good point.  If I imposed my dream of a "more x" this or that onto others while being bigoted toward other peoples' dreams, then I would be doing the same thing from the other side: we'd simply be different points on the same problematic, self-rationalizing/justifying triangle.  However, throughout human history, our accomplishments and growth came about via certain brave people sharing their dreams of unique x’s, rather than staying silent and accepting the reality of their situation (MLK and Gandhi come to mind).  These individuals believed that what they had to say mattered and could contribute to the betterment of humanity.  More importantly, they were proactive and not reactive when pursuing their goals.  Hence, the means by which we pursue social change, will ultimately determine our success.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're imposing your vision of bravery, success, and betterment here as well, by fiat.  I grew up around people who don't see mlk or ghandi as heroic figures, who don't see any societal change born out of their advocacy as a net good or gain.  We've done nothing -other- than react to and exclude such people in "pursuing our goals"...not that this bothers me, ofc, fuck em.....but putting a positive spin on it doesn't change what we've done and what we'll continue to do.  We preach inclusion to the choir from an exclusionary framework.  The hypocrisy isn't lost on them, they're bitching about it as we speak. Trump 2016 anyone?

[paulpablo]

-Poor- people commit more crimes, Pablo, not that there's any onus on anyone to disprove the racist assumptions you hold.  Does it matter that the vast majority of all people arrested for violent crimes in this country are white?  OFC not, you would expect it as brute force of demographics.  There simply aren't enough black people -in- this country to keep up with my caucasian criminal brethren, and so the racist is forced to resort to per capita measures.  Not that these measures informed their racist assumptions in the first place - they already "knew" that black people were "more criminal" before they ever saw a single number.

This shit, is why I endeavor to exclude rather than understand.

You have no idea which other thread I was talking about or the context of what I was talking about.  You just like to pointless join in shouting racist.

I'll inform you and get you up to date with the topic you joined in on while lacking any info about what you're talking about.

In another thread someone said something along the lines of..."I have no problem with people saying black people commit more crime if that's what statistics show, but people have to also acknowledge the causes of this, such as poverty."

Abaris then said "But they don't commit more crime, at least according to statistics I've seen."

So what I'm asking is to see these statistics that show that black people commit equal or less crimes than white people despite having on average less income than white people.

If this is true, and I'm not saying it isn't I'd just like to see the statistics if it is, then this would make black people as a whole more law abiding than white people, if they are economically in a position that makes them more prone to crime yet still just commit equal or less crime than white people.

But this seems to contradict where the best and worst places to live in America are and the racial demographics of those places. And I don't think I've ever seen statistics that show black people committing less or equal crime on average either.

[The Grand Nudger]

See, super dainty feelings.  

There is no such a thing as a more -or- less criminal race. By, "on average", you mean "per capita".....huh? Called it, lol.

Abaris is right, black people don't commit more crimes than white people..as I just explained -in the post you quoted- they can't... there aren't enough of them in this country to do so. In 2014, broken down by race, less than 30% of the crime in this country was "black"...a whopping 69% was "white".
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/201...s/table-43

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

You're imposing your vision of bravery, success, and betterment here as well, by fiat.  I grew up around people who don't see mlk or ghandi as heroic figures, who don't see any societal change born out of their advocacy as a net good or gain.  We've done nothing -other- than react to and exclude such people in "pursuing our goals"...not that this bothers me, ofc, fuck em.....but putting a positive spin on it doesn't change what we've done and what we'll continue to do.  We preach inclusion to the choir from an exclusionary framework.  The hypocrisy isn't lost on them, they're bitching about it as we speak.  Trump 2016 anyone?

My apologies.  My intent is not to impose anything; it would appear that I'm being ineffective in this regard.  Would you say that it is possible to present a vision of success that leads to the betterment of humanity, which isn't imposing or biased in some way?  Are we capable of coming up with such a solution? If so, then what is it? If not, then what is the best solution or course of action that humanity can take, which is the least imposing? My actions in this thread indicate that I do not have the answer to this question.  As a result, if you're willing, I'd be interested in hearing your ideas and wisdom on this matter, Rhythm.  Thank you for your candor and directness.

[The Grand Nudger]

My apologies.  My intent is not to impose anything; it would appear that I'm being ineffective in this regard.  Would you say that it is possible to present a vision of success that leads to the betterment of humanity, which isn't imposing or biased in some way? 

No, I don't think it's possible to do such a thing, there will always be dissent.  Law is imposition, betterment is bias. 

Are we capable of coming up with such a solution? If so, then what is it? If not, then what is the best solution or course of action that humanity can take, which is the least imposing? My actions in this thread indicate that I do not have the answer to this question.  As a result, if you're willing, I'd be interested in hearing your ideas and wisdom on this matter, Rhythm.  Thank you for your candor and directness.

-Whatever- we decide to do, we may as well be honest with ourselves about what it is.  There's no sense in whitewashing our own positions or actions.  To say, for example, that we can't impose our way of thinking or that we attempt to combat bias while we -do- enforce anti-discrimination laws for the betterment of society. We distance things like that from the terms imposition or bias because imposition and bias are dirty words, things to be avoided, while anti-discrimination laws are positively valued (by us, at any rate, obvs not by racists, lol).

[paulpablo]

See, super dainty feelings.  

There is no such a thing as a more -or- less criminal race.  By, "on average", you mean  "per capita".....huh?  Called it, lol.

Abaris is right, black people don't commit more crimes than white people..as I just explained -in the post you quoted- they can't... there aren't enough of them in this country to do so.  In 2014, broken down by race, less than 30% of the crime in this country was "black"...a whopping 69% was "white".  
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/201...s/table-43

Which means 13% of the population commits 30% of the crime and 77% of the population is committing 69%.

And you're 100% correct.  If Abaris was saying that because there are more white people than black people them they white people will be committing more crime then Abaris is correct.  I never thought of it that way. I don't think he meant it that way either.

"Superdainty feelings duh called it lol" .....?