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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 29, 2016 at 4:56 pm
(October 29, 2016 at 4:21 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: (October 29, 2016 at 12:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Alasdair, I think this is the premise that I began with and you disagree with.
Nope. You're backtracking now. This is the premise and what we must assume/take for granted:
(October 28, 2016 at 10:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What we will be taking for granted: We will take for granted God exists.
You can say now that you meant differently... but what you said was that ^^^this^^^ was what your premise was and what we were taking for granted.
Gotta watch that apologist sleight of hand.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 29, 2016 at 5:42 pm
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2016 at 5:45 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Spotting bad reasoning, fallacies, sophistry, casuistry, chicanery in general (in this sort of context) and other forms of mental gymnastics is my specialty.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 29, 2016 at 7:13 pm
(October 29, 2016 at 4:21 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: (October 29, 2016 at 12:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Alasdair, I think this is the premise that I began with and you disagree with.
Nope. You're backtracking now. This is the premise and what we must assume/take for granted:
(October 28, 2016 at 10:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What we will be taking for granted: We will take for granted God exists.
You can say now that you meant differently... but what you said was that ^^^this^^^ was what your premise was and what we were taking for granted.
I am taking God for granted, but I am then arguing why it makes more sense given that God exists, that his system guides to the truth as opposed to his system not guiding to the truth.
This is because he would not be a God let alone the God, if his system didn't guide to the truth.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 29, 2016 at 11:25 pm
Ali! Boom-ba-yay! Boom-ba-yay! Muhammed Ali!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 30, 2016 at 3:47 am
The truth of what? We use science to get to the truth. We only know whether ancient people were telling the truth about anything through science. Taking their word on things we can't test is irrational and pointless. Taking their word on morality is especially stupid because morality is entirely subjective.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 30, 2016 at 5:01 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2016 at 5:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 29, 2016 at 7:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I am taking God for granted, but I am then arguing why it makes more sense given that God exists, that his system guides to the truth as opposed to his system not guiding to the truth. The trouble, amigo, is that you're not -arguing- that. You're rattling off a list of your beliefs. That doesn't satisfy the conditions of an argument.
Quote:This is because he would not be a God let alone the God, if his system didn't guide to the truth.
-yet another non-sequitur.....which just so happens to be something you believe. I;m sure that you'd find a few folks (myself included) that would be more than happy to engage with you..even with that massive initial assumption left to flaot like the turd it is...if you'd just present an argument, rather than blast the boards with a litany of bullshit while pouting about how no one can recognize the validity or your rambling "proofs". I'll even get you started. It goes like this:
-assumption
-valid means of inference
conclusion.
That wouldb't be hard to do, at all. You have no one to blame but yourself for your failures. Not demon magic locking "hearts", not dumb people who don't understand logic -or- your beliefs. It's just you, it's all you, and it's always -been- you. Own it, and if you're not satisfied with it.....then do something about it.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 30, 2016 at 9:31 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2016 at 10:02 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 29, 2016 at 7:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I am taking God for granted,
Yes, this is the assumed premise 'what we will be taking for granted', for sake of argument, as per your OP.
Quote:but I am then arguing why it makes more sense given that God exists, that his system guides to the truth as opposed to his system not guiding to the truth.
This is because he would not be a God let alone the God, if his system didn't guide to the truth.
And these are all conclusions that don't follow from the above premise. Your so-called "arguing" is just a bunch of non-sequiturs, in all honesty.
ETA:
Here let me break it down for you..
"a god exists" is the premise we take for granted and accept.
Watch what doesn't follow logically:
Mysticknight Wrote:his system
Regarding "his"... it does not follow logically from the premise that a god exists that it is a he. Regarding "system"... it does not follow logically that if there is a god it has a system.
Quote:guides to the truth
Regarding "guides"... it does not follow logically from the premise that god exists that it guides anything. Regarding "to the truth"... it does not follow logically from the premise that a god exists that that god would in any way be interested in the truth.
Quote:as opposed to his system not guiding to the truth.
Regarding this. It does not follow logically from the premise that a god exists that it would not be interested in not guiding to the truth.
Quote:This is because he would not be a God let alone the God, if his system didn't guide to the truth.
Regarding this. It does not follow logically from the premise that a god exists that if it existed it would not be god unless it was a guy who had a system that guided to the truth.
None of that logically follows from the premise.
So, my conclusion is thus: You're saying the premise is that "God exists" but God's sex and gender being male, God having a system and God guiding to the truth are either assumed implicitly in your premise, making your conclusions thereby a redundant restating of your assumed premise and making your so-called "arguing" entirely pointless, or you're not assuming those things but then your conclusions are all a bunch of non-sequiturs.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 30, 2016 at 5:36 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2016 at 5:37 pm by Mystic.)
Alasdair, thanks for the conversation.
Let us explain it this way. I think if an ultimate being exists, that it is praiseworthy. Not only is it praiseworthy, but it is praiseworthy in the most exalted way.
That said, in this case, it cannot lack a praise. That means all praise is found in it. Now in my mind, and tell me if you disagree, it being the most valuable thing my definition, the best way and fastest way of leading towards praise would be to direct a relationship with him and recognition of him.
Think of how much you value you relationships with lesser beings in creation. God being the ultimate being, a relationship with him would be the ultimate gift to humanity.
Now while most of humanity intuitively knows an ultimate being exists, I argue, that it must guide us upon a path that lead towards him. I further argue, that an ultimate being would not create potential except for to reach it's full potential. And it would create maximum potential because it is great.
A being that doesn't care about the guidance of humanity, is not being worthy of worship. And as for system, I refer to the world as his design.
That said, I understand from an Atheist perspective, we have no link to objective morality nor can we prove it. Nor have a link to God.
But I'm not proving everything about morality, I am proving some intuitive things we know.
A being that creates a system that only misguides, and doesn't guide to the truth, is not a being worthy of worship.
When I say God exists, I mean the perfect absolute being which can be known to a degree.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 30, 2016 at 6:10 pm
(October 30, 2016 at 5:36 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Alasdair, thanks for the conversation.
You're welcome.
I'll get back to you at another time. My mind is attacking itself with anxiety at the moment.
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RE: Proof of the guidance of Mohammad and Ali.
October 30, 2016 at 6:55 pm
(October 30, 2016 at 6:10 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I'll get back to you at another time. My mind is attacking itself with anxiety at the moment.
I pray for your wellness.
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