Apparitions from heaven???

[Jehanne]

I think a mass of thousands of people (including skeptics) having the same hallucination at the same time is just too much of a coincidence to make much logical sense imho.

Aside from what the others have already said, I do want to point out that a coincidence is not one that is impossible by definition. They are always happening actually. In fact, the "remarkability" of certain coincidences are more products of perception. It is you, a rational being, who decides that they are remarkable.

And, who would have thought (after all, what are the odds) that a solar eclipse would occur during a battle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_of_Thales

[Jehanne]

Anyhoo, night folks

Yeah, Good Night (or, Good Morning!)

[Jehanne]

And, for those of you who do not want to go to the previously mentioned site, the Sun at Fatima on October 13, 1917 was clearly past meridian:



No doubt that Lucia was getting a bit antsy at that point in time.

[Catholic_Lady]

I think a mass of thousands of people (including skeptics) having the same hallucination at the same time is just too much of a coincidence to make much logical sense imho.

You forget (over and over) that some individuals denied that anything supernatural was happening at all!  Some also claimed that the ground, which was soaked from all the rain, also became miraculously dry, as did their clothes.

I haven't forgotten at all. I've actually already addressed it specifically.

[Cyberman]

This site actually addresses the fact that out of the thousands who claimed to have seen the sun move in zig zags, there were some who actually didn't see anything at all... and it actually only serves to further support the notion that it was a miracle and not some sort of natural sun effect:

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/debunkin...-skeptics/

The fact that there were some who did not see the so-called miracle is proof that there were individuals who were in a proper state of mind and not given to hysteria.  If the so-called "miracle" lasted 10 minutes, as you claim, how could anyone possibly not see it?

They weren't meant to.

[RozKek]

Why jump unhesitantly to the conclusion it must be a miracle? We have good psychological explanations for why stuff like this happens, whether it's to do with selective attention, misinterpretation, biases, illusions, mass hysteria, etc.

I think a mass of thousands of people (including skeptics) having the same hallucination at the same time is just too much of a coincidence to make much logical sense imho.

You didn't read what I said or what the others have said? Didn't I tell that it could've easily been caused by people staring into the sun, it even explains the dancing effects of the sun?

[Jehanne]

You forget (over and over) that some individuals denied that anything supernatural was happening at all!  Some also claimed that the ground, which was soaked from all the rain, also became miraculously dry, as did their clothes.

I haven't forgotten at all. I've actually already addressed it specifically.

And, you haven't provided any plausible explanation as to why a supposed miracle lasting 10 minutes (or more) was not observed at all by some.  I think that mass hysteria is a better explanation, one that is completely natural.  It's happened prior to Fatima and since.  After all, what about the other so-called sun miracles?  Do you think that it is possible that large numbers of individuals who had been standing in the mud and rain with the expectation of seeing a miracle from the Blessed Virgin Mary not "see" something after Lucia started screaming?  This reminds me of a movie about the Salem Witch Trials; individuals there claimed to have seen the Devil, demons, etc.

[Jehanne]

The fact that there were some who did not see the so-called miracle is proof that there were individuals who were in a proper state of mind and not given to hysteria.  If the so-called "miracle" lasted 10 minutes, as you claim, how could anyone possibly not see it?

They weren't meant to.

I know that you're being sarcastic!  

If Fatima, why not Ron Hubbard?  Why not believe that humans were deposited in volcanoes by aliens 50 million years ago?

[RozKek]

CL, what stops the miracle of the sun from being mass hysteria? Why don't the same rules apply to the list of mass hysteria that was linked? Why are they mass hysteria but the miracle of the sun isn't? Does mass hysteria have a limit saying if x amount of people report it, it's true? Yet again w/bu the explanation that staring into the sun like smart people do can cause what had been seen? Wouldn't mass hysteria spread more easily the more people experienced it? No one would be convinced by a maniac seeing the sun dancing around, but from tens to hundreds then to thousands of people? Seeing something because you want to see it isn't too uncommon :v

You mentioned yourself or someone did IIRC, that someone told the people to look at the sun, doesn't that support the idea that they did really look into the sun and that caused the optical phenomena? If tens of thousands of people saw it but some didn't, then tens of thousands of people looked into the sun and some were smart enough not to, lol.

[Doubting Thomas]

Yeah, I saw that when I researched this stuff before. Even people on the ground weren't convinced, or saw nothing at all. They were there; they ought to know.

Well apparently those people who didn't see anything weren't devout enough.