Dear Atheists

[LastPoet]

Oh welcome new guy/gal/whatever.

Can you devise a way for all of mankind to feel your god? It would be of great help.

[ParagonLost]

I don't think you have to believe in anything supernatural to be a Christian. I myself don't believe in miracles literally for example. Or a Afterlife. When Jesus healed the Leper I don't believe he did it by miraculously touching him and instantly he was healed. But rather I think he spent time with him by caring for him and eating food with him. The Jews of that time thought it to be bad to eat with the sick or be around them.

[chimp3]

---

@chimp3 I would think you would take it seriously since It doesn't involve anything supernatural.

Well, you thought wrong! Welcome to the forum!

[ParagonLost]

haha thanks chimp

[Alex K]

@ParagonLost

Cool, so you're an atheist in the sense we here use the term?

[The Valkyrie]

I'm assuming you're referring to the Abrahamic god?

I reject belief in this deity because of a number of factors.

1. Lack of evidence of such a being.
2. The contradictory nature of it's holy book and what is written therein
3. The fact that the book is so vague, allowing multiple interpretations of the text and thereby allowing so many variations of the religion, including many of which are contradictory of others.
4. The very nature of the being the book describes: a hate-filled, prideful, vindictive being that, frankly, isn't worthy of human adoration.

[ParagonLost]

I do not believe in any gods. Nor am I compelled to take seriously your claim that you feel gods presence.

Oh welcome new guy/gal/whatever.

Can you devise a way for all of mankind to feel your god? It would be of great help.

LastPoet it turns out it's a little bit more complicated than that. Not everyone is Spiritually aware the same way. i know that seems like a cop out but it may just be because we evolved that way. For example, Sam Harris uses the analogy of Tiger woods and asks the question: what does it take to get as good as him and hit a a whole in one. Turns out its difficult to determine, a long equation it is with differing factors. Some just have a propensity towards being mystics for example. Perhaps you need a certain structure in the brain. If you think mystics are just wasting their time i think its a lack of trying on your part to tell you the truth. But its otherwise hard to explain to someone who hasn't experienced a presence of the holy. It's like white noise as christopher Hitchens put it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't "reject" god(s). I simply don't believe they exist.

[Whateverist]

Dear Atheists,

A warm welcome from a friendly Christian who is interested to hear from you and is willing to listen deeply. I respect you so much, you have courage of your convictions and are truly free thinkers in a complicated world.

Dear Theist,

A warm welcome right back at you from an atheist who is completely fine with you believing whatever makes the most sense to you to believe.  I'm far from alone in that sentiment here but I'm sure you'll also hear from the Christian-intolerant folks.  Some atheists really go through a lot of emotional turmoil in exiting the religion they're brought up in.  I'm one of the lucky ones in that regard.

One thing I don't understand is your constant rejection of God.

Depending on how we're defining "god" I may not be rejecting g(G)od(s) at all.  I simply reject as silly the thought that any eternal entity created everything we can detect and yet cannot itself be detected since it is in the supernatural zone.  If "god" is conceived as an aspect of humanity, I don't reject it anymore than I reject your claim to feeling the presence of God.  It isn't until we parse what it is which gives rise to that experience of yours that we are likely to disagree.  But even then I'm happy to leave you to your own interpretation.

Does that mean that your standards aren't met with the right definition of God? In classical Christianity God wasn't debated like it is today. One may ask back then "does God exist? "Well Yeah, I mean of course!". 

Lets get the Definitions of God right because I mean it in a plural sense, I do believe in multiple definitions. It could be the ground of being, a transcendent being wholly apart from the Universe but immanent and involved in the Universe. But how do you see God or feel him? Feeling is the key word and synonymous with personal experience. Let's forget about Christianity for a minute and look at wider cultures in our beautiful world traditions. Mystics though out the ages have practiced deep contemplation, meditation, and prayer. They have all reported findings that are so important when once experienced, may be one of the most life changing phenomenon we can have. Neuroscience is trying to understand prayer and meditation at the level of the brain so it's very much in concordance with evidence. Now the question is how creative are you going to be? Are you going to use your experience in prayer or meditation to link or confirm your experience or contact with God in Christ and believe he is Lord? Or Allah? It's up to you to interpret your experience in the confines of a religion or no religion at all, which is fine too.

Very happy to hear you say so explicitly the part I bolded.  I think we can get along just fine.  In my experience, there is more to each of us than our conscious minds alone.  How do we understand inspiration, insight or creativity?  Anyone who demands that those arrive by way of a deductive process are sure to be disappointed.  I don't say no to what is mysterious within, I just don't call it god.  Nor I look for more detail about what 'it' is than what it cares to tell me directly.  For that reason, one thing over which we are very likely to disagree is the appropriate weight to give to the bible or any other holy book.  No short cuts for me, thank you.  

The reason I'm a Christian is because I feel the presence of God and that is evidence. The second is I believe he historically existed but I don't believe he said everything the same way as reported in the gospels. I don't even think he considered himself God. Why am i placing so much importance in the presence of God in my life? I think because it correlates directly to the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Disciples had a strong experience of the Lord after his death that he is a living reality in the present. But the reality they experienced was so strong that it was a "divine reality" being one with God and at the right hand of God.

Yeah, not interested in any of that historical hearsay but help yourself.  To me it would feel reckless to grab on to anything as being authoritative where the mystery is concerned.  I prefer to trust myself.

Many of these experiences were visions or revelations. I don't believe in a physical or literal resurrection: as if the corpse of Jesus letter-to-letter transformed to another body. What are visions? I think it's unfair to classify them as hallucinations as if its a drug induced thing. But in a vision you can see a person, for example a passed away relative. You can see them and hold them and even talk to them. They can talk back and tell you things.

I agree with the part I bolded.  I mean what visions are is precisely what is in question.  There is no obvious interpretation.  They may well be hallucinations and if so that wouldn't invalidate them.  Hallucinations and dreams are mental presentations which we don't consciously contrive.  So they are interesting to me at least for that very reason.  When it comes to wondering what more is there to me than what I am free to decide on, they are essential.  

Because the disciples had physical contact with the real Jesus in his real body when he was living on earth, I believe their memories of him telling them things was re introduced in their visions and experience: so I can imagine they're memory off shooting and repeating the phrase " I love you Peter" for example in the vision. So the Lord would have said that twice to Peter. Once in real life and once in the vision.

People might say well they're just visions, its just a experience they had why hold it to such high self esteem? Because anybody who's had a experience or a vision doesn't say "it's only a vision". It's rock solid fact, and it creates reality. And its one of the most important things they will ever remember even in their dying breath.

What they experienced or believed is beside the point as far as I'm concerned.  I've got my own life to live and just one shot at understanding it correctly.  No short cuts for me, thank you.

Thank you so much for reading, I hope you Always stay blessed and think of Good.

Best Wishes

P.S I hope this doesn't come across as proyselytizing.

Not at all.  You seem like someone sincerely looking for common ground.  I noted some.  I hope my indifference toward the bible and historical accounts generally didn't feel insulting for you.  They certainly weren't intended to be.

[zebo-the-fat]

I don't believe in any gods, not zeus, thor, odin, ra, quetzalcoatl, yahweh, or Jehovah for the same reason I don't believe in pixies, fairies or goblins