Trump on 60 Minutes

[The Grand Nudger]

More harm than good?  

As christ said in matthew, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, unless they're moochers"

[Pat Mustard]

[Thumpalumpacus]

People who assisted the underground railroad back in the 1800's also broke the law.  Can we agree that "ethical" and "legal" are two different entities?

^FNM, do you agree with this analysis? If we're equating slaves trying to escape slavery, to non refugee foreigners trying to get into the US, then there shouldn't be a regulated border at all.

I don't think TJ's actually drawing an exact equivalence, but rather, using the Underground Railroad as an example to illustrate her point about the difference between legal and ethical.

[Catholic_Lady]

^FNM, do you agree with this analysis? If we're equating slaves trying to escape slavery, to non refugee foreigners trying to get into the US, then there shouldn't be a regulated border at all.

I don't think TJ's actually drawing an exact equivalence, but rather, using the Underground Railroad as an example to illustrate her point about the difference between legal and ethical.

What I'm saying is that if it's just as unethical to not allow non refugee foreigners to walk right into a country willy nilly, as it is to turn away people trying to escape slavery, then we shouldn't regulate borders at all. 

And from what I understand, FNM does agree that the border should be regulated.

[The Grand Nudger]

You do realize that you're the only person talking about people coming in "willy nilly".....right? In a thread where you explicitly acknowledged that there;s nothing "willy nilly" about it, and have consistently refused to consider a mountain of other less-than-willy nilly things, because you think they're irrellevat to -your- position.

You're also arguing from a point of absurdity, since our borders are not there solely to turn immigrants into criminals, stop immigrants, nor -do- they stop immigrants. If we made it a simple issue of "checking in" at a border access point that;s where people would come through, and not doing the shit we're currently doing won't make our border any less useful for all the other shit that it's used for.

[abaris]

What I'm saying is that if it's just as unethical to not allow non refugee foreigners to walk right into a country willy nilly, as it is to turn away people trying to escape slavery, then we shouldn't regulate borders at all. 

I think there are more important issues and money better spent than on building walls and fences to keep people out that are net payers into society. They, if they are illigals, don't get anything out. But they are consumers by necessity. As I said the last figures I know of, probably a year old, are illegals paying 11 billions in taxes.

I don't pay for their upkeep, you don't pay for their upkeep, so why the big concern? Show me anyone I am subsidysing with my tax money and I will be concerned at some level. Illegals aren't the problem. Tax money wasted on useless actionism is.

[Catholic_Lady]

What I'm saying is that if it's just as unethical to not allow non refugee foreigners to walk right into a country willy nilly, as it is to turn away people trying to escape slavery, then we shouldn't regulate borders at all. 

I think there are more important issues and money better spent than on building walls and fences to keep people out that are net payers into society. They, if they are illigals, don't get anything out. But they are consumers by necessity. As I said the last figures I know of, probably a year old, are illegals paying 11 billions in taxes.

I don't pay for their upkeep, you don't pay for their upkeep, so why the big concern? Show me anyone I am subsidysing with my tax money and I will be concerned at some level. Illegals aren't the problem. Tax money wasted on useless actionism is.

Abaris, I thought you agreed that when it comes to illegals, we should take a hard look and go by individual cases, rather than letting everyone stay or deporting everyone?

But yes, wall is stupid.

[abaris]

Abaris, I thought you agreed that when it comes to illegals, we should take a hard look and go by individual cases, rather than letting everyone stay or deporting everyone?

But yes, wall is stupid.

Yeah, well. But in my case, the government built a useless fence for 10 millions because of populous demand. I could name ten million better ways to spend that money. That fence is a laugh.

What I say is, we shouldn't fret over people coming here. If we find them, and somehow they always are found in their vast majority, we should look at them and then decide.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's pretty easy to find them over here.  They're the brown ones, lol.

INB4 "We have brown citizens". Sure do, and they get deported too...because brown.

[Catholic_Lady]

Abaris, I thought you agreed that when it comes to illegals, we should take a hard look and go by individual cases, rather than letting everyone stay or deporting everyone?

But yes, wall is stupid.

Yeah, well. But in my case, the government built a useless fence for 10 millions because of populous demand. I could name ten million better ways to spend that money. That fence is a laugh.

What I say is, we shouldn't fret over people coming here. If we find them, and somehow they always are found in their vast majority, we should look at them and then decide.

I agree.