Prayer

[Catholic_Lady]

Ok? Lol.

I'm really sorry that happened stim, but uh... that's not really what most of us have in mind when we pray.

I'm sorry, I still fail to see why it would irritate anyone else for me to pray for my own personal issues in the privacy of my home, or for me to tell people whom I *know* would be comforted by it, that I am praying for them. I don't see how that makes someone selfish either.

I have a friend who is suffering from an autoimmune disease right now, and I pray for her but I dont tell her bc she's non religious. But if she was, I would let her know so that it could bring her comfort.

[Whateverist]

Both are perfectly justifiable reasons to feel irritated. Imho.

Here's another example. I know you don't have to take my testimony at face value, but it is what it is.

I've spoken enough - far too much, actually - of the trouble that Shell and I have been having with a guy who believes himself to be xtian (when it suits him, anyway). He is truly unbalanced, manipulative, domineering, and a really detestable piece of work. A couple of months ago, she was in his car, despite all my exhortations against having anything to do with him, and she rang me up so I could hear him kicking off at her. What I heard on that call chilled me to the core and will never leave me.

He was quite literally deranged. He was screaming and babbling about Shell being possessed of an unclean spirit and kept ordering it to leave her body. He was shouting to his lord to come down and save her and him, I mean literally screaming it out like some drugged-up televangelist. When she tried to say anything, he shouted at her viciously - she told me right in her face - to shut up and stop disrespecting his praying. He started spouting random gibberish, which is supposed to be speaking in tongues. I couldn't see him, thank fuck, but I imagined and Shell later confirmed that he was shaking, sweating, blood vessels bulging, eyes popping, drooling, basically he'd lost it. It was the closest I've ever been to true insanity. I kept telling Shell to get the fuck out of that car and to a place with other people. This is a guy, you may remember, who once tried to push her out of a moving vehilce into oncoming traffic. Who knows what the fuck he was going to do in this utterly deranged state?

Thankfully, he calmed down enough to give her chance to get out of there and escape. But she still has nightmares about him coming into her home and doing it again.

I truly wish I was making this up.

How awful!  Who behaves this way?  What an entitled prick!  It has to have been a relative or close friend surely.  I can't picture Shell tolerating anyone else going off like that.

[Cyberman]

You'd be surprised. And no, it wasn't a relative or even a friend who is all that close, except on a business level. He has done time - on two separate occasions - for ripping off children's charities, and is still doing these sort of things. I have the news article about him, which I have absolutely no compunctions about sharing around with his business contacts. I feel they deserve to know the character of people with whom they do business.

And C_L, I'm going to back out of this conversation. It's really nothing personal, but you do seem insistent on turning everything I say into a personal assessment of your beliefs, which is sort of what I mentioned earlier, when all I wanted to do was show you a glimpse of the effects of this crap from the other side of the fence.

[Catholic_Lady]

You'd be surprised. And no, it wasn't a relative or even a friend who is all that close, except on a business level. He has done time - on two separate occasions - for ripping off children's charities, and is still doing these sort of things. I have the news article about him, which I have absolutely no compunctions about sharing around with his business contacts. I feel they deserve to know the character of people with whom they do business.

And C_L, I'm going to back out of this conversation. It's really nothing personal, but you do seem insistent on turning everything I say into a personal assessment of your beliefs, which is sort of what I mentioned earlier, when all I wanted to do was show you a glimpse of the effects of this crap from the other side of the fence.

Fair enough. Sorry if I misunderstood something. It just seemed like you were saying people don't pray for others except for selfish reasons. Maybe some people do I guess, but that hasn't been my own experience, and it just seemed like you were making a general statement about everyone who prays.

[chimp3]

I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

---

I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.

You obviously do not speak for all Christians. The pentecostals who comprise my nuclear family certainly do believe in magical responses from god. Food appearing, money, jobs, cancer "you foul demon begone".

[Joods]

Prayer consists of the following things:

-Showering God with praise
-Worshipping him
-Thanking Him profusely
-Supplicating and begging him for help or favors

That's it.

You can't just chat with God about the weather.  You can't have an intelligent conversation with Him.  You can't ask Him questions.  You can't argue with Him.  You can't level with Him like an adult.

God is terrible.

God is imaginary.

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My personal favorite meme:

[tigerlove]

for me prayer is ligthing a candle in a special corner of my living room..kind of a spiritual value in my house..
and expressing in MY own words what i want for a person i care about
i do not believe in religions because they cause more harm then anything else...
this forum is abouth atheism...so...the belief in no God or deities...why is this forum full of topics about religions then?
i believe in exchanging goodness from heart to heart...the giver gives,the receiver receives and accepts...
no dogmas,rules..just plain love...i recall my hippie days...I still am..
but it's a race of people which is gone and forgotten..we are just history of the roaring sixties..
we are not extint yet..I still got friends who think like i think about life...

[robvalue]

We discuss religion for many reasons, one of which is the harm it continues to do worldwide. If it never hurt anyone, I wouldn't care about it.

Also it's funny taking the piss out of it. This is also an attempt to knock it off its perch, when it thinks it's above criticism.

[Homeless Nutter]

1. No, I hope for themselves they find the strength to battle through tough times for their own well being.

2. No. That's why I keep saying we should help if we can along with the praying, not just pray and leave it at that when we can help. I didn't mean someone else do it so I dont, I meant others besides just me do it too.

Way to twist my words and the intention of my post.

That only makes a difference to you. The poor person still gets no help and you get to go on with your cushy middle-class life, without having to face reality, or to contemplate the injustice and inequality present all throughout this world, supposedly created by your omnipotent and benevolent god. And at the same time you get to part-take in the very attractive narrative, of helping other people, fighting evil AND scoring brownie points with your magical pen-pal, simply by making a wish. And if a person you prayed for gets better somehow - you get to feel like the creator of the universe pays attention to what you want, which - I'm sure - is reassuring... If the person doesn't - meh, guess lordy-lord had other plans, no biggie...

Because you have accepted very convenient beliefs: that evil comes from sin, that humans must suffer, due to our mythical ancestors alleged crimes, and that sky-daddy will sort all this out, once the Earth experiment is over, at which point the poor will all get their own wings and harps, as long as they make sure to love Jebus and not take it up the b*tt, or whatever.

I wish I had magical spells, that could make me feel better about myself and the world. Alas - I only have drugs...

[tigerlove]

@Rob..thanks for your input..I follow you..and appreciate your point of view...
still..I wanna say this..harm,you say...O.K then..why discuss harm if it creates more harm?
talking about religion is a dead end street..would it not be a better idea to discuss life values==
like inner peace,seeking of personal freedom,understanding,harmony,trust,life values,love..
taking the piss out of it?right...shit hits the fan then,is it not?mockery rules..
prayer?do atheists pray if they do not believe in anything?
and how about a true believer of any religion..can he/she take the piss out of atheism and what it represents?
i believe the Baka pygmees in the Cameroun forest are happier then all of us here on this forum..
discussing things which will never get solved..in my eyes it's just an endless discussion..
sorry for my rant,mate..but it's my 2 cents here..