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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 9, 2016 at 5:30 pm
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2016 at 5:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Meh, they only need "the average person" to pull one lever once every few years. Between those times they dance with the one what brung em. Look at the trumpenfuhrer, he was supposed to be different (or that's what his supporters thought)...right? His list of cabinet picks is beginning to dovetail nicely with his list of donors. Imagine that.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 9, 2016 at 5:31 pm
(December 9, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Tonus Wrote: (December 9, 2016 at 4:15 pm)dyresand Wrote: I would have liked it if Johnson won really.
Johnson is almost as crazy as Trump, just with fewer excuses since he's held political office. He seemed like a viable candidate until they stuck a camera and a mic in front of him. Jesus that turned out to be a disaster.
As for the election, my only issue is with anyone who didn't vote for Clinton (whether abstaining or voting third-party) and then pitched an apoplectic fit when Trump won. I get the impression that a Clinton win was far preferable to them, so if they decided to 'protest' by staying home or voting 'other' then they're part of the reason she lost. If they felt that both candidates were awful and we were screwed either way, then a third-party vote wasn't wasted or misguided or 'the reason she lost' etc. Doubly-so for those who stayed home, since they might have had an effect on local politics if they'd voted. We weren't only selecting a President that day.
I voted third-party. I doubt my vote would've changed Trump's victory in my state, and under those circumstances my vote was irrelevant anyway.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 9, 2016 at 5:41 pm
(December 9, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (December 9, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Tonus Wrote: Johnson is almost as crazy as Trump, just with fewer excuses since he's held political office. He seemed like a viable candidate until they stuck a camera and a mic in front of him. Jesus that turned out to be a disaster.
As for the election, my only issue is with anyone who didn't vote for Clinton (whether abstaining or voting third-party) and then pitched an apoplectic fit when Trump won. I get the impression that a Clinton win was far preferable to them, so if they decided to 'protest' by staying home or voting 'other' then they're part of the reason she lost. If they felt that both candidates were awful and we were screwed either way, then a third-party vote wasn't wasted or misguided or 'the reason she lost' etc. Doubly-so for those who stayed home, since they might have had an effect on local politics if they'd voted. We weren't only selecting a President that day.
I voted third-party. I doubt my vote would've changed Trump's victory in my state, and under those circumstances my vote was irrelevant anyway. i did the same i couldn't really choose between warmonger a or let's not fight russia b.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 9, 2016 at 9:01 pm
(December 9, 2016 at 2:49 pm)Shell B Wrote: Fuck's sake. The only people we have to blame for Trump are people who voted for Trump. That's all she wrote. People who didn't vote for Hillary didn't like Hillary. Expecting people to plug their noses and vote "the lesser of two evils" when they have other options and they hate your candidate is just self-serving. Fuck the DNC. They didn't target young voters well enough. Fuck Hillary for all of her skeletons. Fuck Trump for being such a piece of shit. Fuck the media for all of the lies they spread and air time they gave Trump. Fuck Trump voters for being too stupid to see through the mist. Bernie supporters? Most of us either voted for Hillary or got out of the way while the two major parties fucked over the country, yet again. Fuck us for trying to get a third party in there to stop this madness, right? Had I been in a swing state, I'd have voted for her and hated every second of it. I don't blame the Independents and Dems who didn't vote for her. Actually, scratch that, Dems probably should have stepped up to the plate, but a shitload of you didn't.
No, see, you've got it all wrong, Shell. I've got it on good authority that Hillary lost because all of the liberals kept pointing out that Trump was running a racist campaign and tha his supporters were condoning that prejudice. They didn't like being told they were supporting racism, so they went and voted for the racist...out of spite or something, I guess...
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 9, 2016 at 9:51 pm
Meanwhile keep telling all of us how there is no difference at all between Hillary and Drumpf.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/republic...-by-trump/
Quote:Republicans plan to reintroduce Anti-LGBT ‘religious freedom’ bill supported by Trump
Yep. Two sides of the same coin.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 9, 2016 at 11:36 pm
RE "no one has a right to your vote" bullshit:
Keep your ideology and lose. You can always eat that when you starve, I suppose. Half a loaf is worse than no loaf at all. /s
The Left honestly can't do unity to save it's ass, especially with pretentious fools thinking they're better than the system they're chained to.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 10, 2016 at 12:46 am
Now I'm confused, are you saying candidates do have a right to your vote?
Look, I get your point that voting for Clinton over one of the third parties would have been a great way to prevent Trump, but I don't think it's as simple as saying that if those third parties hadn't existed, Clinton would have won. Neither of us have very many stats to go off, but I would be surprised if Stein or Johnson voters were Democrat-leaning to the point that they would make an effort to get out and vote for Clinton, because if they were, they would have done so.
I found several articles the other day that 90% of Sanders voters were planning on voting for Clinton, but those articles were from just after the convention, so I'm not sure how that actually panned out.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 10, 2016 at 12:52 am
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2016 at 12:53 am by Autumnlicious.)
No, you'ce read me quite wrong. I'm simply reacting to the petulant attitude expressed as "they aren't entitled to my vote". It's obnoxious and here's why:
You don't have to vote. Your ideological enemies will.
Sour grapes, which is what this really is, is an admission that you are comfortable with losing and know it.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 10, 2016 at 1:03 am
(December 9, 2016 at 2:39 am)Tiberius Wrote: I'm not dismissing it, but rather saying there's more than one way of looking at it. People (including yourself here) tend to view the smaller party as the "damaging" one, and I believe this probably comes from years of seeing only two parties ever come out victorious.
No, it comes from understanding that voting third party in this past election was a predictable disaster for this nation. One could have been sensible and voted for Hillary and then voted third party everywhere else.
And if third party voters actually, truly, honestly gave half a fuck about their chosen third party, which they don't, but if they did, they would have managed to have gotten them on the ballot in a lot more places. They'd be working now instead of waiting for four years to play the no-risk game of "I'm gonna run for President even though the only effect I'll have is either nothing or to get someone like George W. Bush or Donald Trump elected, thereby fucking everyone in the U.S. for the next four years. That's because I'm principled."
Quote:They are held up as the "major" parties, and people accept that as the norm, so third parties are often seen as "bad" or "lesser" off the bat. This, is what is truly damaging, IMO.
This^ is total bullshit. Get over it. What's truly damaging is that Donald Trump is going to be POTUS.
Quote:So are third parties a damaging dead weight on their closest ideologically aligned "major" party, or are "major" parties a damaging dead weight on the third parties?
I don't know. Since we're on the verge of being Great Again, let's just wait and find out.
Quote:No party has a right to your vote, and all votes are supposedly equal, and all voters have a free choice in who they vote for. If a person votes third party, more often than not, it's because they believe that third party is better than one of the major parties. If that party didn't exist, would they have voted for a major party? Maybe, maybe not. The fact is, they didn't.
Votes are not counted equally in the electoral college system, which is why, if one pays attention, they'll realize that Stein voters played a huge role in getting Trump elected. If a person votes Whatever way but can't distinguish from disaster, then what does that say about the person casting that vote?
Quote:That's the crux of the matter for me. Clinton failed to get enough people to vote for her, so did Stein, so did Johnson, so did any other third party candidate. They are all in the same boat.
[/quote]
No, they weren't all in the same boat. The third parties were in the boat that had no chance to make the first quarter mile in a thousand mile race but were close enough to shoot a fucking torpedo at Clinton and give us Trump.
Third party voters can rationalize this horse-shit all they want, just like they're still doing about Nader, but the fact is there are hundreds of thousands of dead people and several trillion dollars worth of debt because they decided to vote for a third party nothing-fuck who had no chance of doing anything except getting the worst person elected.
That's the reality. So maybe in 2020 you can make that massive sacrifice and not cast a vote that amount to a vote for Trump.
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RE: You're Right, Bernie....
December 10, 2016 at 1:25 am
(December 10, 2016 at 12:52 am)Moros Synackaon Wrote: No, you'ce read me quite wrong. I'm simply reacting to the petulant attitude expressed as "they aren't entitled to my vote". It's obnoxious and here's why:
You don't have to vote. Your ideological enemies will.
Sour grapes, which is what this really is, is an admission that you are comfortable with losing and know it.
They aren't entitled to a person's vote though; they have to earn it. Clinton needed votes in the rust belt to win, and she didn't appeal to those voters. That's on her, not on third parties, not on rust belt voters.
This isn't sour grapes. I'm pissed that Trump won and Clinton lost. I would have preferred that Clinton won for obvious reasons. The only reason we didn't vote for Clinton was because we knew she would win MA. If there was even a small chance of her losing, we would have voted for her. We prefer to support third parties where possible though.
However that doesn't mean that people should blame third parties for a problem which starts and ends with Clinton. Third parties aren't responsible for the election system we're stuck with, and they certainly aren't responsible if people choose to vote for them. Third parties exist because people want options other than the two that are forced on them. People want diversity in elections.
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