Fuck's sake. The only people we have to blame for Trump are people who voted for Trump. That's all she wrote. People who didn't vote for Hillary didn't like Hillary. Expecting people to plug their noses and vote "the lesser of two evils" when they have other options and they hate your candidate is just self-serving. Fuck the DNC. They didn't target young voters well enough. Fuck Hillary for all of her skeletons. Fuck Trump for being such a piece of shit. Fuck the media for all of the lies they spread and air time they gave Trump. Fuck Trump voters for being too stupid to see through the mist. Bernie supporters? Most of us either voted for Hillary or got out of the way while the two major parties fucked over the country, yet again. Fuck us for trying to get a third party in there to stop this madness, right? Had I been in a swing state, I'd have voted for her and hated every second of it. I don't blame the Independents and Dems who didn't vote for her. Actually, scratch that, Dems probably should have stepped up to the plate, but a shitload of you didn't.

Yup.  My state went like so.

62.5% Trump
32.7% Clinton
 2.8% Johnson
 1.2% McMullin (you heard right, Evan and Mindy baby, they're gonna make america great again!)
   .7% Stein
   .1% De La Fuente

I didn't cast a vote. Sure, sure, being where I am somebody might say "hey, good year and place to vote third party"...well...sure, but you see those other 4 names on that list, right?  I wasn't going to vote for the first two...what about the next four would induce me to vote for them?  To "shake it up"?  Yeah, that's what the trumpsters were doing, remember?  I wouldn;t have voted any name on that list into a county seat, so ofc I didn't vote for any of them to be POTUS.  That's kindof the big leagues.  Now, it;s my fault that we got trump, or so I've heard it said...but I can only point to the 62.5% of my state that are complete and utter mouthbreathers to suggest where that fickle finger belongs. Fine, upstanding people. My friends and neighbors....somebody's mom, their dad, their brothers and sisters and friends...my friends too (and my dads too, though that's another state entirely)....still mouthbreathers.

(December 9, 2016 at 2:49 pm)Shell B Wrote: Fuck's sake. The only people we have to blame for Trump are people who voted for Trump. That's all she wrote. People who didn't vote for Hillary didn't like Hillary. Expecting people to plug their noses and vote "the lesser of two evils" when they have other options and they hate your candidate is just self-serving. Fuck the DNC. They didn't target young voters well enough. Fuck Hillary for all of her skeletons. Fuck Trump for being such a piece of shit. Fuck the media for all of the lies they spread and air time they gave Trump. Fuck Trump voters for being too stupid to see through the mist. Bernie supporters? Most of us either voted for Hillary or got out of the way while the two major parties fucked over the country, yet again. Fuck us for trying to get a third party in there to stop this madness, right? Had I been in a swing state, I'd have voted for her and hated every second of it. I don't blame the Independents and Dems who didn't vote for her. Actually, scratch that, Dems probably should have stepped up to the plate, but a shitload of you didn't.

The same people who voted for Obama again would have gotten the short stick of things. Remember NAFTA she defended that and called the TPP the gold standard 
most democrats wouldn't have jumped up for joy and voted for her. There is places in the U.S. that have been hit hard due to NAFTA and still haven't recovered from it.
Many industrial places in the U.S. haven't really improved job wise.  All in all those people remember  all to well what the Clinton's have done to them and they weren't going to 
sit back and hold their nose and vote for her. Then you have the minority vote Trump did better than Hillary because all she did was pander and she already lost a good bit of the young
black vote with the BLM incident. To sum it all up the people who were hurt the most and now are struggling would never vote for her, look how long it took for her to agree on gay marriage in reality  marriage isn't even biblical. Then you add onto the other stuff not a lot people like her so you add into the fact that oh shit trump is running shit is getting scary. I voted third party i am not playing into that lesser of two  evils bullshit. One wants to start more wars the other wants to help and aid Russia which i will agree we  need to support our allies.
2020 i hope the democrats and republicans lose so that way another party can actually  get something done. Honestly i wouldn't care who wins just not some  bullshit party democrats or republicans anymore.

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(December 9, 2016 at 3:09 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yup.  My state went like so.

62.5% Trump
32.7% Clinton
 2.8% Johnson
 1.2% McMullin (you heard right, Evan and Mindy baby, they're gonna make america great again!)
   .7% Stein
   .1% De La Fuente

I didn't cast a vote. Sure, sure, being where I am somebody might say "hey, good year and place to vote third party"...well...sure, but you see those other 4 names on that list, right?  I wasn't going to vote for the first two...what about the next four would induce me to vote for them?  To "shake it up"?  Yeah, that's what the trumpsters were doing, remember?  I wouldn;t have voted any name on that list into a county seat, so ofc I didn't vote for any of them to be POTUS.  That's kindof the big leagues.  Now, it;s my fault that we got trump, or so I've heard it said...but I can only point to the 62.5% of my state that are complete and utter mouthbreathers to suggest where that fickle finger belongs.  Fine, upstanding people.  My friends and neighbors....somebody's mom, their dad, their brothers and sisters and friends...my friends too (and my dads too, though that's another state entirely)....still mouthbreathers.

I would have liked it if Johnson won  really.

(December 9, 2016 at 12:54 am)Moros Synackaon Wrote: More likely that Sanders supporters voted for Stein or abstained.

There's some truth to that. Youth turnout was lower than expected and the Green party got more votes than last election. My coworker had friends who all voted Stein (Bernie or Busters).

Not that it matters - Trump is inevitable excepting something truly unheard of.

Not this shit again. BOTH had their scorched earthers. It is voters fault for not showing up and we rely too much on big cities and suburbs If dems had shown up we would not be arguing about third parties. And need I remind that Bernie ended up backing Hillary

(December 9, 2016 at 4:15 pm)dyresand Wrote: I would have liked it if Johnson won  really.

Johnson is almost as crazy as Trump, just with fewer excuses since he's held political office. He seemed like a viable candidate until they stuck a camera and a mic in front of him. Jesus that turned out to be a disaster.

As for the election, my only issue is with anyone who didn't vote for Clinton (whether abstaining or voting third-party) and then pitched an apoplectic fit when Trump won. I get the impression that a Clinton win was far preferable to them, so if they decided to 'protest' by staying home or voting 'other' then they're part of the reason she lost. If they felt that both candidates were awful and we were screwed either way, then a third-party vote wasn't wasted or misguided or 'the reason she lost' etc. Doubly-so for those who stayed home, since they might have had an effect on local politics if they'd voted. We weren't only selecting a President that day.

I'd be reminding the hillarybots that they'd just handed the henhouse keys to a wolf.......but then again we could have soldiered on under the polite fiction that we weren't a country positively bursting with deplorables, lol. That we were a country that had fallen for a pleasant lie, at least, in Hillary's case, rather than a country who stamped the swas on our foreheads....as we did with Trump.

(December 9, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(December 9, 2016 at 4:15 pm)dyresand Wrote: I would have liked it if Johnson won  really.

Johnson is almost as crazy as Trump, just with fewer excuses since he's held political office.  He seemed like a viable candidate until they stuck a camera and a mic in front of him.  Jesus that turned out to be a disaster.

As for the election, my only issue is with anyone who didn't vote for Clinton (whether abstaining or voting third-party) and then pitched an apoplectic fit when Trump won.  I get the impression that a Clinton win was far preferable to them, so if they decided to 'protest' by staying home or voting 'other' then they're part of the reason she lost.  If they felt that both candidates were awful and we were screwed either way, then a third-party vote wasn't wasted or misguided or 'the reason she lost' etc.  Doubly-so for those who stayed home, since they might have had an effect on local politics if they'd voted.  We weren't only selecting a President that day.

that's the problem with voting no one really shows up anymore i mean the voter turn out was horrendous. If we actually made voting mandatory 
the 2 party system we have now would be challenged because more people would be out there voting and sure as well if voting was mandatory neither 
Trump or Hillary would have won.

If we made voting mandatory -our- political system would find some way to use that as leverage to get folks to vote for their pet candidate.  Troopers show up at your house, for example, to "politely remind you" that failure to vote was a crime, and that they endorse John P Shitstain for president. Just another civic service we'd provide. "I;m sorry Jane Q Citizen, though you technically qualify for public assistance you failed to vote on the Religious Freedom to Compel You To Church Services Act with it's coupled rider on funding for public assistance, that makes you ineligible". I could do this all day.

Non-participation is the final means of non-violent protest, when all other avenues have failed or are implausible.

I'm not in favor of forcing citizens to vote. I don't think that would change the two-party system because the two main parties have divided up most of the issues and drawn lines in the sand over them. We've gotten used to choosing a side and accepting the platform so that attempts to build a third party won't gain much traction and they're more likely to face pressure to be absorbed into one of the main two. We like having easy choices. The two-party system fits right into that.

(December 9, 2016 at 5:23 pm)Tonus Wrote: I'm not in favor of forcing citizens to vote.  I don't think that would change the two-party system because the two main parties have divided up most of the issues and drawn lines in the sand over them.  We've gotten used to choosing a side and accepting the platform so that attempts to build a third party won't gain much traction and they're more likely to face pressure to be absorbed into one of the main two.  We like having easy choices.  The two-party system fits right into that.

But this election proved that the republican and democratic parties are just one in the same. 
That and both parties  as of now are worthless when it comes to helping the average person.