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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 9:54 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2012 at 9:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You suspect psychic anything at this point? Well, good luck with that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 10:07 pm
(March 11, 2012 at 9:38 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Whateverist, I suspect that the secret ingredient will be found in some form of pan-psychic paradigm, in the sense that subjective experience is somehow fundamental to the universe rather than an emergent property of electro-chemical reactions.
I wish I had a sensible response, as I've tried so far..
But all I've got is Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 10:43 pm
(March 11, 2012 at 9:38 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Whateverist, I suspect that the secret ingredient will be found in some form of pan-psychic paradigm, in the sense that subjective experience is somehow fundamental to the universe rather than an emergent property of electro-chemical reactions.
I respect your right to disagree and I have no doubt you will have sound reasons for what you understand. My own intuition goes the other way. In the end I think neurology will provide all the answers. I don't think anything like consciousness can exist outside of a living brain. It will never exist in computers in my own very backward opinion nor will it exist when the body that supports it dies. I don't find that disappointing. Understanding how a thing works shouldn't diminish the awe and wonder of it having come to be in the first place. Very special, very fragile and in the end finite that's how I see this thing we call consciousness.
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 10:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2012 at 10:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
For my part, I couldn't even begin to guess as to what answers we may one day have (or where they will come from...we do have a habit of accidental discovery after all), all that is relevant are the answers that we already do have.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 10:48 pm
(March 11, 2012 at 10:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: For my part, I couldn't even begin to guess as to what answers we may one day have (or where they will come from...we do have a habit of accidental discovery after all), all that is relevant are the answers that we already do have.
You're right. I'm probably being over optimistic about how far science may take us into understanding our own nature. Mostly I just meant to say I have confidence natural explanations will suffice as far as we might get.
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 10:51 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2012 at 10:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
A hard earned confidence, btw. Natural explanations have been fought tooth and nail despite being consistently productive. In the end it may be optimistic, but we're allowed to be as optimistic as we like, aren't we?  Or aren't we.... 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 11:39 pm
The consequence argument:
1. If determinism is true, then our actions are the consequences of natural laws of the remote past.
2. We can't change the natural laws
3. We can't change the remote past
4. If determinism is true, as well as 2 and 3, then we can only do what we in fact do.
5. If we can only do what we in fact do, then we never act freely.
6. If determinism is true, then we never act freely
Frankfurt's rebuttal to premise 5
1. Franny has a mind control device
2. The device will only be used on Zoe if she deviates from Franny's desired actions.
3. Zoe commits the actions without deviating
4. Zoe acted freely
A matter of chance argument
1. If an agent's act is undetermined, then how the agent acts is a matter of chance
2. If how an agent acts is a matter of chance, then the agent is not morally responsible for the act.
3. If an agent's act is undetermined, then the agent is not morally responsible for the act.
Von Inwagon's mystery
1. If acts are determined, then the agent is not responsible for the act
2. If acts are undetermined, then the agent is not responsible for the act.
3. We believe we are sometimes responsible for our acts, we believe we know we are responsible
Conditional analysis of ability
1. S can do A iff S were to try to A, then S would succeed.
Just a few arguments I've ran across in the past while on this topic. It's one of metaphysics most debated subjects, specifically because of moral responsibility and metaphysical freedom.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 11, 2012 at 11:58 pm
(March 11, 2012 at 11:39 pm)Perhaps Wrote: The consequence argument:
1. If determinism is true, then our actions are the consequences of natural laws of the remote past.
2. We can't change the natural laws
3. We can't change the remote past
4. If determinism is true, as well as 2 and 3, then we can only do what we in fact do.
5. If we can only do what we in fact do, then we never act freely.
6. If determinism is true, then we never act freely
Frankfurt's rebuttal to premise 5
1. Franny has a mind control device
2. The device will only be used on Zoe if she deviates from Franny's desired actions.
3. Zoe commits the actions without deviating
4. Zoe acted freely
A matter of chance argument
1. If an agent's act is undetermined, then how the agent acts is a matter of chance
2. If how an agent acts is a matter of chance, then the agent is not morally responsible for the act.
3. If an agent's act is undetermined, then the agent is not morally responsible for the act.
Von Inwagon's mystery
1. If acts are determined, then the agent is not responsible for the act
2. If acts are undetermined, then the agent is not responsible for the act.
3. We believe we are sometimes responsible for our acts, we believe we know we are responsible
Conditional analysis of ability
1. S can do A iff S were to try to A, then S would succeed.
Just a few arguments I've ran across in the past while on this topic. It's one of metaphysics most debated subjects, specifically because of moral responsibility and metaphysical freedom.
Long time, no see. Has your absence been freely chosen or has it been the consequence of your pre-determined schedule? Nice to hear from you and indeed brevity is appreciated.
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 12, 2012 at 12:03 am
It's good to come back and find the philosophy section isn't completely dead. My absence is largely due to my course load and a new goal of reading a majority of the books in the western canon. I'm glad to see you're still around the forums as well. By the way, the pictures from your garden are gorgeous. I always enjoy looking at them when you post them.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
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RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 12, 2012 at 12:08 am
(March 12, 2012 at 12:03 am)Perhaps Wrote: It's good to come back and find the philosophy section isn't completely dead. My absence is largely due to my course load and a new goal of reading a majority of the books in the western canon. I'm glad to see you're still around the forums as well. By the way, the pictures from your garden are gorgeous. I always enjoy looking at them when you post them.
That's what I assumed. Nice to see someone undertaking a true education in this day and age. You're rare. Good luck with that reading load. Don't be in so great a hurry that you swallow anything you haven't chewed thoroughly. (As if you needed the reminder.)
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