Koran book burning

[DeistPaladin]

Min your plain nuts.

Irony meter broke again.

[Watson]

I think this man is a jack-ass, but I doubt people will sit idly by and allow this to happen without any sort of out-cry or condemnation. My friends and I discussed the idea of going down to Florida and actively protesting the burning as it happens, but then we don't have enough money, nor do we live close enough to do so.

However, it is important to remember that in America, we have as much right to stand up for ourselves and against those who harm us as this pin-head has to burn these books. He can do what he wants, but we don't have to like it or take it lying down. And hopefully, those of us who can see this guy for the ignorant nut-job that he is will show their distaste for his hate-ful actions.

I know my friends and I certainly will be.

[Eilonnwy]

I merged the other thread in the Christianity forum with this one, as they were both on the same subject.

[lrh9]

I'm glad of this. A victory for offensive speech is a victory for us all. To say otherwise is to dismiss the value and validity of free speech. We won't be promoting peace by destroying free speech. I watched a movie named Equilibrium about a future in which World War 3 was so devastating, a world government formed to enforce the consumption of an emotion destroying drug to prevent the negative emotions which cause war. However, not everyone wanted to take the drug. They would go underground to acquire materials with 'emotional content' and to feel emotions. The government would respond by waging war on those groups. They would send out squads to destroy the emotional content and execute the people feeling emotions on site. In the end, they practiced the very evils they were trying to prevent. If you oppose the allowance of this you are no different and you are certainly not promoting peace, but war. To say that only those who are right should be allowed to express themselves is a path to genocide.

Mind you, I'm not saying that you should value this.

For me, a victory for all or a victory for only myself is just as equal. I don't really care as long as I win. I'm just providing my assessment of the situation. If you want peace, protect their speech. If you want total war, wage it. Just point me in the right direction and stay the fuck out of my way.

[Godscreated]

You are always so out of touch, G-C. YOu really need to get out more and find out what your fellow xtians are up to.

Min I stay in tune with what's going on in America and the rest of the world, just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm out of touch. Actually all it indicates is your lack of tolorence towards those who disagree with you.

In a speech last week, Sarah Palin promoted belief in God as a form of patriotism, dismissed notions that "America isn't a Christian nation," and denounced a federal judge's ruling that it's unconstitutional for government to declare a National Day of Prayer.

Actually I agree with her statement here. I'm not a Sarah Palin fan I do not support all of her opinions but I do support her right to express them even if it irritates you. Many people including myself believe that burning the American flag is unpatriotic and others see no problem with that. So how is the belief in God and the burning of the flag, different from each other.

Drake: I think it's appropriate to pray for the will of God. I'm not saying anything, what I'm doing is repeating what God is saying, if that puts me on somebodies list then I'll just have to be on their list.

Colmes: You would like for the president of the United States to die?

Drake: If he does not turn to God and does not turn his life around I am asking God to enforce in imprecatory prayers throughout the scripture that would cause him death, that's correct.

I also believe in praying for God's will. I don't agree with praying for God to curse a person and cause him to die. If our president dies in office it will not be because this person believes he can change the will of God. God desires that our relationship with Him be of love not hatred. God's ultimate will is done wheither we ask Him to do it or not. I'm sure God does many things each day that is in His ultimate will that no one ever realizes.

About a third of the respondents to a survey sent to Christian activists maintained that the American Civil Liberties Union was the most dangerous group in America. The second most dangerous were gay rights groups. And 5% of the respondents said militias were the most dangerous.

Traditional American values scored very low among the conservative Christian activists surveyed. About 80% declared that members of the above "dangerous groups" should not be allowed to: make a public speech, run for public office, demonstrate in public, or operate legally. Only 44% said these "dangerous ones" should not be allowed to teach in public schools.

In cooperation with the Institute for First Amendment Studies, the Bliss Institute, of the University of Ohio, conducted a 1997 survey of conservative Christian activists. Of the 1200 contacted, about 600 responded to the comprehensive survey. The results represent a cross-section of between 200,000 and 400,000 Americans.

The respondents were almost all white (97%) and a majority were male (62%). Seventy percent had college degrees (of which 47% claimed post-grad degrees). Income level was moderate, with 65% earning $50,000 or more a year. Fifteen percent earned more than $150,000 a year.

Almost 100% surveyed identified themselves as one form or another of conservative Christian, with 71% stating specifically, evangelical Protestant. Eighty-six percent believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, saying that Satan is a real being, and Jesus is the only way to salvation.

Sixty percent believe the world will end in Armageddon, and 56% believe that Christians are obligated to try to convert Jews.

This survey was from 1997....I imagine things are much worse now.

I agree with the bold text statment. I disaree with the italized statement. The underlined is bull, here's why. There is no way 600 conservative christians could represent 200,000 to 400,000 typical Americans that's ludicrous. 97% of Americans are neither white or male actually women out number males. I seriously doubt that 62% of Americans have a college degree. 65% of Americans make less than $50,000 a year. When you contact 1200 conservative Christians, I'm not sure of this ha ha, but shouldn't one expect to have 100% of them say they were conservative christians and that they would be in agreement on matters of salvation,satan and ie. I agree that from the surveys I've seen lately that surveys are getting worse all the time but I'm not sure how a survey could be much worse than this one.
Perspective is everything.

[Entropist]

The first day I set foot in a little shithole of a town in Lousyana at age 13, I saw their local paper: A front page article, with full color photo, of a local church burning CareBears and pop/rock records (and not just the obvious Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin stuff-- I'm talking ABBA and Lionel Ritchie).

These idiots were not just doing something symbolic-- they believed this stuff to be "satanic," literally full of demons, demonic influences, whatever. And that's what these idiots in Florida are doing: this is not merely symbolic of their disagreement with Islam or certain Muslims or even merely voicing a hatred for all things Muslim. No, they actually think the Koran is literally of the devil. That's how these morons think.

(I remember my ex-wife's brother's mother-in-law was told by her pastor to never buy anything from Pier 1, since decorative items from furren cuntries were possessed by demons)

The truly disappointing thing is how much attention this has gotten-- which is what Pastor Idiot wanted of course-- with even Obama begging and grovelling him to not go through with it. Apparently there are pathetic idiots on all sides of this "issue." I just can't wait for it to be over with so this will be forgotten like all other useless "controversies."

Great for "news" ratings though, eh?

[Watson]

@lrh9- I don't think opposing this is nearly so negative or volatile as you make it out to be. Peaceful protest has, in the past, worked wonders for this country. Standing up for what is right and saying 'no' to someone who has set out to propogate negative behavior is not so much fighting at that person, but taking an active stance of opposition to show the world that that is not what we are as a people.

America is not founded on this kind of hatred. America is not made up of this kind of hatred. America is a beautiful place full of wonderful opportunities and even more wonderful people. It wouldn't have come this far if it wasn't. We need to shwo the world that that place still exists, in the hearts and minds of those who are willing to tell people like this idiot that we will not support him.

[lrh9]

In America you have the right to be offended. You do not have the right to not be offended.

America is founded on liberty. America is liberty. Liberty for all, or liberty for none.

I do support him.

[Watson]

Wait, what? I do not have the liberty to not be offended? What the hell does that even mean?

I'm not saying I do not support his right to do what he pleases. But I do not condone his actions in the least, and neither should anyone. It is ignorant bigotry, what he is doing. We need to set ourselves apart from this man, show the world that he does not represent America except in his freedom to spew whatever bullshit he pelases. Just like those who do not like his actions are free to oppose him.

[Entropist]

America is not founded on this kind of hatred.

Well, except maybe that whole slavery thing and that business with all those pesky Native Americans...