Being atheist in the Bible Belt

[Minimalist]

It doesn't have to "die."  It merely has to decrease to the point where it no longer is a factor in governance.  Europe and Canada are already there.  We will get there.  The internet will see to that.

No we won't. It'll never happen here.

It's already happening.

[johan]

I live in the midwest and I keep both my religious and political leanings to myself. To do otherwise would likely be detrimental to my earning potential.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's already happening.

Maybe not.  There's a countervailing theory of religious economy that contradicts secularization.  To make a long story short, it conceptualizes believers as consumers of religious goods and services, and different sects, cults, denominations and religions as the brand or provider.  Essentially, arguing that religious plurality indicates an overabundance of religious consumers.   In that context,  peoples increasing willingness to check the "not affiliated" box might represent a shift in the religious economy, from major brands to niche marketers....but it should not be taken as an indicator of reduced religiosity so long as the number of religious providers continue to increase.  

In their model, the church of england, for example, accelerated the secularization of the UK.  Disaffected consumers were less likely or less able to turn to catholicism or islam (as examples) for their goods and services.  The state/cultural psuedo-monopoly on the market space left little room for competitors, and so, when the CoE faltered, religiosity in the UK faltered with it.  That's not happening here.  While the number of southern baptists goes down, the number of churches affiliated with the the southern baptist convention increases.  Someone is attending those services regardless of whether they checkmark the baptist box on a survey, paying for those goods.

Brand affiliation may be what;s changing, not peoples beliefs, or even the ability of those beliefs to be a factor in governance. At the same time, legitimate "nones" were still raised by people who were either formally affiliated or had personal leanings toward one denomination or another (even if only by default)......and while they may not believe in the gods of their fathers, they often do believe in their father's politics. I think it'll take a few generations of nones before you see politicians quit with the jesus circus bullshit....and even then, those issues which they spread their slime all over will have to be discussed and hashed out between people for whom the religious under/overtones are a non-issue and yet still find themselves opposed, before we see any change in the landscape.

[Minimalist]

That's not the way they tell it.

http://www.virtueonline.org/why-are-sout...-shrinking

The front page of the magazine SBCLife, of the Southern Baptist Convention, which goes to 54,000 pastors and church leaders, reported that America's largest Protestant denomination has shrunk every year from 2007-8 with 16,228,000 members to only 15,736,000 in 2012-3.

That's a loss of nearly a half million members (492,800) -- more than many entire denominations such as the Christian and Missionary Alliance, the Presbyterian Church in America and the Russian Orthodox Church.

And,

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanin...t-sbc.html

Pew also found that Southern Baptists are aging, with the median age rising from 49 in 2007 to 54 in 2014. That makes them older than Nazarenes, "nones," and nondenominational Christians, but younger than Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Methodists.
Other news from the recent Annual Church Profile (ACP) report released by LifeWay Christian Resources, which compiles SBC stats:

• About a third of Southern Baptists show up in church each week, with attendance dropping to about 5.67 million Sunday worshipers.
  
• Total baptisms declined 305,301, or about 1 for every 51 members. The rate remained unchanged from last year, thanks to the membership decline. But the overall number of baptisms is the lowest since 1947.
  

This is a long term trend.  And since it is these evangelical fucks who cause most of the problem this is decidedly good news.

[The Grand Nudger]

That is how they tell it?  I mentioned in my last post hat the southern baptists membership was declining, I simply pointed out a simultaneous increase in affiliated churches.  Religious economy theory offers an explanation for why the numbers of members might decline that also accounts for the increase in affiliated churches.  People are still paying for the goods and services, just not from the same providers.  They, personally(as consumers), do not see the need to affiliate but to the providers affiliation is marketing.

[Alex K]

@OP

I'm not American, but I had the pleasure (not meant ironically) to live outside Midland TX with a Christian family while I was doing my senior year in a public high school there. They found out soon enough that I wasn't a believer, but it was very important to them that I would show up to church with them as a family thing, so I went most of the time. Initially, it was really interesting because there was a decent live band, and a charismatic style preacher, and man was that something different! However, the novelty wore off after a few months and it just became an ordeal to sit or stand between rows how people yelling "yes Lord! Amen" all the time, some of them singing themselves into a state of extasy. Even as a relative outside and a science minded atheist, you start to feel the brain melting effect of the whole endeavour, and that started to piss me off. I managed to skip on quite a few occasions when spending the weekends with friends. I didn't actively hide my nonblief in school, but it barely came up. I only remember one instance where I got into a lunchtime discussion with a lovely girl from my class about some theological question - I don't even remember what it was about. It must have worried her though, because the following week she gave me a bible in which her pastor had highlighted certain verses which they thought were especially relevant to my salvation. Of course I cordially accepted the present. I never felt any repercussions because of my belief, which may be due to the fact that 1. I was more or less a guest from the outside and 2. I was an excellent student, consistently on the honour roll.

I sometimes heard family say stuff like "Well, how's that new colleague X of yours?" "He's appears to be a good guy... he's a Christian, so..." and I must say that I felt quite hurt by that. I also heard talk about how some previous exchange student who went to the same church had found jesus there and how everyone was so proud because of that. Sure, they didn't imply that I must be bad because I wasn't a Christian, but I still felt like a second class person at times. But I never was explicitely treated like one, so it was just an emotional thing.
One night after church bbq, the new youth pastor gave me a ride home in his slick convertible, and we were rocking out to Jars of Clay and other badass rock music, and he asked me about my beliefs. I suspect that they set the thing up so he had an opportunity to reach out to me - I didn't mind. I told him my scientific and theological position in quite some detail, and his response was - well, I must say, you have a very transparent and clear worldview. I thought that was an interesting reaponse, and there wasn't any further attempt to preach to me.

[Minimalist]

That is how they tell it?  I mentioned in my last post hat the southern baptists membership was declining, I simply pointed out a simultaneous increase in affiliated churches.  Religious economy theory offers an explanation for why the numbers of members might decline that also accounts for the increase in affiliated churches.  People are still paying for the goods and services, just not from the same providers.  They, personally(as consumers), do not see the need to affiliate but to the providers affiliation is marketing.

You can start up shitloads of churches but if no one is in them....and even more paying for the pleasure...who gives a shit. 

The south is not cut off from the forces at work in the US.  It may have had a longer way to go but it is not exempt.  Bill Maher loves to talk about how he gets very enthusiastic audiences in the south.  They appreciate his effort.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's kind of the question that the data forces one to ask.  Who -is- paying for the pleasure, as membership in traditional service providers decreases, while the number of affiliate providers increase?  It may be that the uptick in new religious organizations is a pass-through model, like a gas station on the religious highway to non-affiliation.  That they aren't trading in repeat business, but volume of traffic.

[Mr Greene]

Actually the increse in numbers of Baptist churches is a feature also seen in th  UK. It does not indicate that significant numbers are joining. Instead as numbers of church-goers decline the Baptists turn to infighting to the point that factions can no longer bear to share  buildings. Subsequently one or more groups will establish a new church producing a statistical increase both in numbers of churches and church-goers as the original church will claim that members who transferred to the new church still attend its services (linked to funding).
In the long run this hastens the decline as neither church has the numbers to cover overheads.

[The Grand Nudger]

The religious economy model doesn't suggest that it has anything to do with more people joining, or more religious people.  It calls into question the notion that people are leaving religion...even if they are leaving a specific provider.  What you've just described dovetails nicely with the model.  In the situation presented two (or more) providers compete for an insufficient customer base, naturally, they both go out of business quicker.  Where the economy model advises caution is in assuming that anther two or more providers wont crop up, compete for the same insufficient market, and ultimately fail themselves, repeat ad infinitum.  These people may very well affiliate as nones (the affiliations of their providers are not the affiliations of the consumers).  So long as more churches open up, it's a safe assumption that there is some market for their services.  In their model, self affiliation -and- new providers would have to decline simultaneously before it was indicative of people leaving religion in the general.