Do you think American soldiers are put on too high of a pedestal

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think four years of negotiations speaks for itself in that regard.

[Minimalist]

I suppose it depends on what you are negotiating for.  I admire Nixon's stick-to-it-iveness.  But then, he was just looking for a way out before the roof caved in.

[abaris]

What I find rather ironic is that the USA are the rightful heirs of Prussian militarism. I would be hard pressed to name another country that obsessed with it's armed forces. I just watched a documentary on military schools and boot camps for children. Catch them while they're young. That's virtually the same the Prussians did, breeding their future soldiers.

I was that disgusted that I couldn't even watch the documentary to it's end. It's a form of child abuse to expose 12 or 14 years olds to that kind of treatment.

[Thumpalumpacus]

What I find rather ironic is that the USA are the rightful heirs of Prussian militarism. I would be hard pressed to name another country that obsessed with it's armed forces. I just watched a documentary on military schools and boot camps for children. Catch them while they're young. That's virtually the same the Prussians did, breeding their future soldiers.

I was that disgusted that I couldn't even watch the documentary to it's end. It's a form of child abuse to expose 12 or 14 years olds to that kind of treatment.

There are, according to my searching, 67 military high schools in America, of a total of over 18,000 high schools. I think those numbers work against your point here.

There is certainly a streak of militarism in a wide swath of the American population, but it is not really based in military pedagogy, but rather, mindless patriotism.

[abaris]

There is certainly a streak of militarism in a wide swath of the American population, but it is not really based in military pedagogy, but rather, mindless patriotism.

Which kinda makes my point. The Prussian militarism had the same goals. Creating dutyful subjects by playing to their sense patriotism. Again, this is an outside observation, but it seems to me that the US are the only country being that much into their military. I'm well aware that there are ulterior motifs in doing so, but that's also why I called the pedestal they are put on lip service in my first post. It's not the actual service man they should care about but the general idea of the military might.

[Anomalocaris]

What I find rather ironic is that the USA are the rightful heirs of Prussian militarism. I would be hard pressed to name another country that obsessed with it's armed forces. I just watched a documentary on military schools and boot camps for children. Catch them while they're young. That's virtually the same the Prussians did, breeding their future soldiers.

I was that disgusted that I couldn't even watch the documentary to it's end. It's a form of child abuse to expose 12 or 14 years olds to that kind of treatment.

I don't think USA inherited Prussian militarism.  Prussian militarism was reliant on a society wide submissive sense of duty, worship of the institutions of the state and well ordered society, as well as heavy emphasis on professionalism and diligence.  American militarism is egotistical jingoism, dilettantism,a sense of contempt for institutions of state beside military, and a sense of entitlement to earn more for doing less merely for being born white and American.

[The Grand Nudger]

Allow, for a moment, that prussian militarism was also an issue of jingoism etc.....iow that people are remarkably similar no matter what stories we tell.  The US has a society wide sense of submisive duty, que the "give trump a chance" folks... the most vocal dissident invariably finds their ideological support in a sense of duty to the american ideal, and the military is -all about- diligence and professionalism. It may not seem that way from the outside, granted.......but you can't escape or argue with it from the inside. That isn't sold to the public (they're heroes), it's not uniform in the newly enlisted (do what you're told)......but work your way to the nco core and it's a different ballgame - suddenly the most effective and accurate comparisons are with an efficiently ruthless sense of militaristic corporatism. If you want to succeed there's a well defined path cirumscribed on all sides by your adherence to professionalism at the expense of any other consideration. Got buddies, fuck you. Got morals, fuck you. Got ideals, fuck you. They will decline your re-up if you don't fit the mold.

Perform, perform, perform.

[Anomalocaris]

It plainly, clearly, and demonstrably did.  Allow, for a moment, that prussian militarism was also an issue of jingoism etc.....iow that people are remarkably similar no matter what stories we tell.  The US has a society wide sense of submisive duty, que the "give trump a chance" folks...and the military is -all about- diligence and professionalism.  It may not seem that way from the outside, granted.......but you can't escape or argue with it from the inside.

Give trump a chance didn't mostly come from sense of duty.  It mostly came from unbridgeable sense of ideological division as well an inveterate laziness where one would settle out of laziness for trump, rather than control the sense of ideological hostility and concede government by ideological enemy might indeed be better for the whole.

Also, the term militarism has no special meaning inside the military.  To remain a military, a military had better be militaristic.    The term militarism only has special meaning when applied to the society outside the uniform military. Outside the military American social norm is anti-intellectual, dilettantish, and rife with sense of unearned entitlement.

[The Grand Nudger]

I suppose we just have a difference of opinion on the matter.  I see the same things you see, I interpret them a different way.

[abaris]

Give trump a chance didn't mostly come from sense of duty.

We also had, show him some respect, because he's the commander in chief (btw, a military term). So, respect, not because of him earning it, but because of the office he managed to park his ass in.

That's literally the same as the Prussian doctrine, based on what we use to call secondary virtues in the German language: Obedience, being a good subject and respect your superiors.