Doubt in disbelief

[GUBU]

its actually a combination but they main one is the miracle at fatima.

Fatima was a bullshit story spun by a young girl who was good at telling tales and being the centre of attention, which was later embellished by her at the behest of a church looking to bolster its worsening position (for example the "three secrets" weren't written down until after the second world war, and all other "prophesies" were ony made after the events they "prophesied" had actually happened).

If that's the "evidence" you are wavering over, I pity for your lack of critical skills.

[Simon Moon]

OK I see your arguments are good so far perhaps i should give a little more detail on it. well that would be hard since it was described in many diffrent even contradictory  ways but they seem to involve spinning and the sun falling,sun dogs are stationary though so that does not explain the dancing although it could have only existed in the observer's minds,wikipedia says that mass hysteria is unlikely although 3 other websites disagreed with it. never the less the catholic church says its worthy of belief but I am not sure of how high there skeptism is. There are some photos of it online I am not very good with black and white photos so maby some of you can analise them for me please.

The dancing, spinning sun reports came almost exclusively from a Catholic Priest, Father John de Marchi, interviewing witnesses years later. Not too biased, nope, not at all...

The effects are most likely a combination of several things. Again, remember, the vast majority of the people there were Catholics already expecting to see a miracle. Their minds were susceptible to anything from outright hallucination, to misinterpretations of natural phenomena, to being convinced by the masses around them that they saw something they really didn't. The human mind is known to be susceptible to all these.

But you seem to be missing another point.

There is no need to invoke any kind of supernatural explanation, if there are possible, more likely, natural explanations.

[Aoi Magi]

When I was in school, we were shown a picture of random dots, and we all saw those dots till one kid pointed out it was a picture of jesus, then everyone started seeing jesus in the dots, I being a devout not-sure-ist failed to see anything but dots. Later when I asked around, I got all sorts of observations, from multiple angles of just the face to full body image... apparently those dots contained all possible variations of jesus, or maybe the kids just saw the projections of their own imagination, fueled by the first claim and an attempt to not seem out of place and fit in with the crowd.

Ask yourself, a miracle only seen by believers that too varying in the details between individuals, is there any difference between such a thing and mass hallucinations?

[Asmodee]

possibly they changed some things but 70000 people is a hard lie and there is photo's of the crowd

It's really not.  The crowd was 30,000 to 100,000 people, but the claims, that's all a single church.  This is a church so desperate to make Pope John Paul a saint that it accepted as "miraculous" the "healing" of a lady whose symptoms then later returned because she was never actually healed of anything, she was just asymptomatic for a while.

[TheoneandonlytrueGod]

ok perhaps that sounds weird i could have stated it better so to make a long story short. i have found evidence for the judeo christian god aka the monster of the old testament and its bothering my sub subconscious very much.

If you believe anything in the bible you'd do well to well to accept the whole thing right or wrong. Sure there are some, very few, historical references in the bible but they only obscure the basic inconsistencies otherwise portrayed. And monsters? WTF?  

[brewer]

OK I see your arguments are good so far perhaps i should give a little more detail on it. well that would be hard since it was described in many diffrent even contradictory  ways but they seem to involve spinning and the sun falling,sun dogs are stationary though so that does not explain the dancing although it could have only existed in the observer's minds,wikipedia says that mass hysteria is unlikely although 3 other websites disagreed with it. never the less the catholic church says its worthy of belief but I am not sure of how high there skeptism is. There are some photos of it online I am not very good with black and white photos so maby some of you can analise them for me please.

bold mine

The catholic church, and christian religion in general, says there are a myriad of miraculous things that are worthy of belief. In your eyes are they all worthy of belief? If your answer is no, why should this event hold any more or less credibility?

[The Grand Nudger]

 never the less the catholic church says its worthy of belief but I am not sure of how high there skeptism is. 

They also believe in chanting magical spells over crackers....so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that their level of skepticism is low to non-existent.

It never happened. If it had happened, there would be no need for -any- church to declare it "worthy of belief".

[AceBoogie]

its actually a combination but they main one is the miracle at fatima.

LMAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Asmodee]

its actually a combination but they main one is the miracle at fatima.

LMAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You make a compelling argument.

[Whateverist]

There are some photos of it online I am not very good with black and white photos so maby some of you can analise them for me please.

Pretty sure Vorlon would be pleased to help you with this.