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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 4:10 am
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2010 at 4:12 am by The_Flying_Skeptic.)
(September 18, 2010 at 3:57 am)blood_pardon Wrote: The Flying Skeptic Wrote:The research for abiogenesis has not ceased. Which doesnt change the fact that as of today September 18, 2010 it has so far FAILED in explaining the origin of life.
People believed that there was no other explanation for the weather than gods for hundreds of years. Now after hundreds of years, we have meteorology. We have only just begun to understand DNA for the past 60 years. We should be more optimistic about science with the fact in mind that arguments from incredulity as explanations for nature have been superseded by naturalist explanations time and time again in history.
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 4:11 am
(September 18, 2010 at 3:57 am)blood_pardon Wrote: IceSage Wrote:There's a difference between not being given an answer to what you asked, and being given the answer, and you not fully comprehending it, or choosing to accept it to your satisfaction. No one has yet to give a BETTER explanation for our existance than God did it. If they have on this thread please by all means quote them...
In a way, many people have, in fact, the 1st reply from Adrian you received kind of answered it.
In the mean time, if you HONESTLY want to know how we came to be, why not try reading some science books or ask a professor on the subject, instead of asking a bunch of atheists? People tend to do this quite often... Theists, creationists in particular, tend to constantly ask Atheists to prove or offer opinions on science. Why would you ask people who lack belief in the god(s) questions on science? It may be true that a lot of us have a fascination with science, since it's so fascinating and exciting... But I don't see why you would ask them to provide "better" explanations on anything at all.
Let me put this in my own way and make this simple for you, sort of a retake on what other people have already said, but in more simple terms. Here's the question:
Do you exist, yes or no?
(Also, I'm not sure how a space keeps ending up in my name when you quote me. Not exactly sure why you would add a space considering the forums don't put a space in my name in any way shape or form. The forums do not make mistakes, so no need to attempt to "correct" the spelling of my online alias.)
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 6:07 am
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2010 at 7:22 am by Zen Badger.)
(September 18, 2010 at 3:57 am)blood_pardon Wrote: No one has yet to give a BETTER explanation for our existance than God did it. If they have on this thread please by all means quote them...
Prove that god exists and we'll go from there.
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 6:54 am
It is pointless to answer you BP, you think you are the first apologist around here? Infact, your posts are like clones of the posts our last apologist made, the arguments, the same old copied from evangelical sites. They have been answered so many times it is utterly boring. Yeah, its like facing an army of mindless drones that don't honestly seek an answer, only want to rub their own ego and convince themselves that their delusion is true.
You do not seek answers, you seek only to confirm your faith, and I for one won't even bother to answer to someone that doesn't really want to ear an answer.
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 6:57 am
(September 18, 2010 at 6:07 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (September 18, 2010 at 3:57 am)blood_pardon Wrote: No one has yet to give a BETTER explanation for our existance than God did it. If they have on this thread please by all means quote them...
Prove that god exists and we'll go from there.
Well, to touch up on this concept... You don't even have to go that far.
A better question or a better way of phrasing it, would be rephrasing the original question as:
"Give me a better explanation that unicorns outside of space and time didn't sneeze us into existence," or something similar.
Even if someone did give you a "better" explanation, would that still even make it correct?
Like I said, open up a science book, talk to some professors, and people who have, for most of their lives, researched and been involved in such subjects. Read the peer reviewed papers, etc. Read, examine, and fully understand what the theories are, and there you go, that's your "better explanation." Not only is it better, it's also the most plausible based on REALITY and careful examination and study.
I mean, if you want a BETTER explanation that doesn't involve you researching what ACTUALLY happened, I could just say that you're part of an elaborate dream, that stems from my disembodied consciousness, as I'm the only real and intelligent entity, and you're all nothing more than figments of my imagination, projected by particles I extend from my mind. I mean, it would totally make sense to me! I know that I'm real!
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 10:52 am
(September 18, 2010 at 6:57 am)IceSage Wrote: (September 18, 2010 at 6:07 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (September 18, 2010 at 3:57 am)blood_pardon Wrote: No one has yet to give a BETTER explanation for our existance than God did it. If they have on this thread please by all means quote them...
Prove that god exists and we'll go from there.
Well, to touch up on this concept... You don't even have to go that far.
A better question or a better way of phrasing it, would be rephrasing the original question as:
"Give me a better explanation that unicorns outside of space and time didn't sneeze us into existence," or something similar.
Even if someone did give you a "better" explanation, would that still even make it correct?
Like I said, open up a science book, talk to some professors, and people who have, for most of their lives, researched and been involved in such subjects. Read the peer reviewed papers, etc. Read, examine, and fully understand what the theories are, and there you go, that's your "better explanation." Not only is it better, it's also the most plausible based on REALITY and careful examination and study.
I mean, if you want a BETTER explanation that doesn't involve you researching what ACTUALLY happened, I could just say that you're part of an elaborate dream, that stems from my disembodied consciousness, as I'm the only real and intelligent entity, and you're all nothing more than figments of my imagination, projected by particles I extend from my mind. I mean, it would totally make sense to me! I know that I'm real! That's the background of Elder scrolls universe
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 11:12 am
(September 18, 2010 at 3:57 am)blood_pardon Wrote: No one has yet to give a BETTER explanation for our existance than God did it. If they have on this thread please by all means quote them...
No explanation is better than one which is unfalsifiable, which makes no predictions, which depends on arguments from incredulity, which posits a being whose characteristics are unlike anything we've ever seen before, which makes fanciful and clearly untrue claims about the answering of prayers and the performance of miracles and which is basically one massive shrug of the shoulders when it comes to the big questions of our existence.
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken
'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.
'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain
'I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.' Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 11:22 am
(September 17, 2010 at 6:05 pm)Skipper Wrote: Just an after thought with the fine-tuning argument...if god had the ability to "fine-tune" the universe to support life, would we not be seeing life swarming on all the other planets in our galaxy? and life in other galaxies? Would God not want to have created as much life as possible? Or did god get lazy after that busy week he had creating life on earth? Or is watching over even more planets to much to ask of the all powerful being? Or has heaven got a admittance limit?
He most obviously put those other planets there to make them seem inferior, in comparison to the almighty "success" that Earth is.
(Even though according to Christianity, Project Earth was a complete failure.)
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 3:28 pm
define "better".
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RE: Present a BETTER worldview
September 18, 2010 at 3:35 pm
(September 18, 2010 at 3:12 am)blood_pardon Wrote: theVoid Wrote:If you mean better as in "has the ability to explain the existence of the "fine-tuned" initial conditions and constants" then M-theory and the white-hole hypothesis are just as efficient, why? Becuase they both posit an infinite number of scenarios and this by definition allows an explanation for everything. The point of this thread was for you to provide a BETTER explanation than God. These claims are just as extrodinary and lack just as much scientific evidence. That's an unintelligible statement if ever I saw one, how does this theory within theoretical physics, an extension upon particle physics require as much evidence as an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient deity? They cannot be compared, they both address separate issues, especially since your claim is as extraordinary as claims can feasibly get.
And, NO, it's not our damn responsibility to disprove your make-believe god, it's your burden of proof to demonstrate that he actually exists; shifting it to your audience will accomplish nothing. We were happily addressing the fine tuning argument and probability for the laws of physics prompting life to occur, that is, until you changed the topic matter completely.
Quote:Welsh Cake Wrote:Big Bang
This is a non answer. The BB only provides evidence that the universe had a begining which is consistent with what the bible says about creation ex nihilio. You asked for a "better explanation" and I gave you a link to Big Bang model, which is not to be confused with a fictional villainous character from a book.
Quote:This is another failure. Abiogenesis is a failed hypothesis.
By your own omission your current understanding of abiogenesis and how scientific hypothesises work is the same as AngelThMan: little to none.
Quote:It's best to just do away with these "technical numbers" and just say its so UNLIKELY its impossible.
If that's your interpretation of the probability for life and/or non-life, still doesn't mean it can't happen, we're kind of the demonstrable evidence that it can indeed occur naturally, without a great big sky daddy.
Quote:Do you have a better explanation for:
1. DNA
Again, I can't address the other points because you're not making any sense. Can you possibly be anymore vague? What about DNA do you need a clearer explanation of? Its discovery? Properties? Structure? Evolution? RNA world hypothesis? What?
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