Nonviolent Protest and Resistance Privileged

[Autumnlicious]

Black bloc seems to be the left anarchist expression of using violence to protest. Is it helping more than its hurting? It started in Germany as a reaction to a resurgence of Neo-Nazis, which is about as good as it gets as far as justifying the violence.

The downside:

- people whine about free speech while arguing for government forces to murder citizens by their ethnicity, religion or political affiliation

- journalists play both political sides by ignoring the abhorrent policies advocated by said Nazis to play up the liberal idea that there's no such thing as a bad idea

- mostly everyone forgets how Nazi Germany rose politically, which required useful idiots like the above to politically protect their right to advocate for getting rid of the Jewish traitors

The upside:

- possibly scare Nazis into silence


Yeah, I'm less convinced that the Black Bloc will win against disingenuous, self-serving ahistorical shitheadery put forth by the Left and the Right, which elevates Fascist or Totalitarian policies at the same level of discourse as Centrist policies.

I dispute that "all ideas are equal" notion through noting that some ideas are inherently harmful - the entire course of World War 2's crimes can be heaped upon coddling Nazism and pretending it had a valid voice in poltics.

Now we have a President who will literally lie about the weather of his own inauguration.

WTF world.

[abaris]

Black bloc seems to be the left anarchist expression of using violence to protest. Is it helping more than its hurting? It started in Germany as a reaction to a resurgence of Neo-Nazis, which is about as good as it gets as far as justifying the violence.

They show up internationally. They're the equivalent of internet trolls and sometimes I'm not sure if they're not ruse to discredit honest and peaceful protestors. Their self proclaimed goal is anarchism. At the very least they're mindless idiots, since they don't really stand for anything. Truth to tell, I quite hate them, since they give protestors a bad name. They discredit protests and the issues being protested at the same time by burning cars or attacking cops.

[The Grand Nudger]

There is no "they"...abaris...lol.

[CanOfMountainDew]

Black bloc seems to be the left anarchist expression of using violence to protest. Is it helping more than its hurting? It started in Germany as a reaction to a resurgence of Neo-Nazis, which is about as good as it gets as far as justifying the violence.

- mostly everyone forgets how Nazi Germany rose politically, which required useful idiots like the above to politically protect their right to advocate for getting rid of the Jewish traitors

Nazi government put forth propaganda that the jews were oppressing 'real' germans. What we really should be afraid of is the nazi tactic of  pretending to be the victim in order to gain societal favor to oppress lol...

And the argument isn't that all idea's are equal. It's that *everyone* should have the right to express *any* idea. 

[Edwardo Piet]

The only time violence ever should be used is to prevent even greater violence. And I'm talking qualitatively not quantitatively.

[Crunchy]

That is semantic torture in order to avoid admitting that a stupid mistake was made.  The discussion was clearly about whether or not actions could be justified by those taking part in the discussion and not about what some twisted soul would believe in their own mind.
This is just part of the "never admit your wrong or concede a point" tenure from some regulars and it is becoming rapidly boring.


This--> "At the exact moment that a person is willing to trade their life for change....it's justifiable."

Is stupid. It's wrong. It fails every test of critical thinking and moral thinking. Now, if the people here are so vacuous that they will spend ten pages trying in vain to defend the indefensible, what hope do you think there will be of having any reasonable discussion with this type of person?

I'm guessing you missed my point that justification, like any other human emotion, is inherently subjective? Or perhaps you disagree with my point, but don't want to bother with laying out why?

In either event, there's something you're not addressing in this sweeping dismissal of yours.

That's a strawman as no one disagreed that people ready to die for a cause didn't feel themselves justified. Self justification was not the issue being discussed and it would be crazy for someone to ask "When does it become self justifiable to resort to violence in a protest?" That's not what was asked. 

You can try all you want to find a semantic argument that will save the day but it won't help because the fact that someone is ready to trade their life for change proves absolutely zero about the change they want to make and that includes whether its justifiable or not.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm guessing you missed my point that justification, like any other human emotion, is inherently subjective? Or perhaps you disagree with my point, but don't want to bother with laying out why?

In either event, there's something you're not addressing in this sweeping dismissal of yours.

That's a strawman as no one disagreed that people ready to die for a cause didn't feel themselves justified. Self justification was not the issue being discussed and it would be crazy for someone to ask "When does it become self justifiable to resort to violence in a protest?" That's not what was asked. 

You can try all you want to find a semantic argument that will save the day but it won't help because the fact that someone is ready to trade their life for change proves absolutely zero about the change they want to make and that includes whether its justifiable or not.

As I've sad already, twice in this thread, justification is like any other human emotion: it is subjective. Adding the modifier "self-" to justified is a distinction without a difference. There is no such thing as objective justification. You may or may not agree that this or that act is justified, but that too is subjective.

To turn the question over: what act can you consider to be objectively justified even when it results in harm to others? Any? None? And would its victims consider it justified?