How long will Christians wait for Jesus?

[Astreja]

If God exists, he created us for a purpose ...

... which can never be our own purpose.  Essentially that would make us just sentient playthings, to be cuddled or banished to the Bad Toys Box.

[SteveII]

If God exists, he created us for a purpose ...

... which can never be our own purpose.  Essentially that would make us just sentient playthings, to be cuddled or banished to the Bad Toys Box.

It is if the purpose was to have a relationship with us (which it is).

[The Grand Nudger]

So, bit like a planet full of sex dolls. No thanks, I'll pass. Gods subjective assignment of purpose is too objectively rapey for my tastes.

[Cyberman]

... which can never be our own purpose.  Essentially that would make us just sentient playthings, to be cuddled or banished to the Bad Toys Box.

It is if the purpose was to have a relationship with us (which it is).

I've heard of making your own friends, but this is some next level shit.

[Nihilist Virus]

Is repeating your assertion supposed to make it better the second time.

No, it is a consequence of your refusal to listen the first time.

Did you read through the link where Jesus/Paul used the phrase over and over NOT referring to the second coming?

Congratulations, you ctrl+F searched the Bible for the wrong phrase. You completely ignore the bit about the son of man coming. He is referring to himself participating in a future event.

Don't tell me what the Bible means when you can't be bothered to research or even to try your argument from a different direction.

I know more about the Bible than you. I have read the Bible and that's why I'm atheist. Go read Numbers 5, Numbers 31, and Judges 19. Tell me all the timeless wisdom you find.

[Faith No More]

Gloating seems particularly un-Christlike and would therefore be sinful.

Did Kellyanne Conway take over your account? Because you completely dodged that question.

[Astreja]

... which can never be our own purpose.  Essentially that would make us just sentient playthings, to be cuddled or banished to the Bad Toys Box.

It is if the purpose was to have a relationship with us (which it is).

That's still your hypothetical god's purpose, not ours.  I prefer to decide for myself what my purpose is, and modify that purpose as I see fit.

[HairyCyclist]

1. Khem and I are going back and forth in another thread on this. I intend to reply to him tonight, but in general Naturalism teaches that we are the product of time and chance (evolution). That process cannot endow us with intrinsic (defined as belonging naturally, essential) value any more than anything else that evolved. I am not saying that we don't have value, but rather that the value comes from things we can do and not simply because we exist. 

If God exists, he created us for a purpose and gives us intrinsic (defined as belonging naturally, essential) value/meaning/purpose. For example, take a block of wood. It has the properties of wood (fiberous, organic, brown, hard, etc.). If a craftsman take the block of wood and transforms it into a chair, it now has the new properties and purpose of being a chair. If it had grown into something that looks like a chair, we could not call it a chair and it would not have those properties and purpose of being a chair. 

2. No, you view humanity as fine the way it is. I believe a relationship with God is needed and can make it better. Christians believe that humans were made in the image of God. How much more respect do you need?

1.Thank's for the English lesson Steve.

The block of wood you describe was once a tree, alive and serving it's purpose on the planet.
I feel (just like the tree) that I have a purpose already, and do not require your God to give me a purpose.

2.I believe humanity would benefit greatly if we ditched all notions of God. I believe we evolved, so again no need for God or his respect.

[Fake Messiah]

Matthew 24:30-34 says,

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


So I'd say Jesus is about 2000 years late.

So you're saying that the writer of Matthew, who was writing this gospel after the passing of the apostles generation, is saying that the world should have already ended?  I really think that he would have to be smarter than that and make up something different.

Why do you think he should be smarter than that? Really why when it is obvious that writer of Matthew didn't even read the book of Isaiah, epsecially Isaiah 7:14: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

Jesus was never referred to as Immanuel, especially not in "Matthew". Not to mention mother-to-be is described as almah (maiden), not bethulah (virgin). Name is probably the most noticeable failure of the prophecy stated in "Isaiah" others are: "He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel." "He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem." "He must bring world peace." "He must be a member of the tribe of Judah"

So I don't think that writer of Matthew is smarter then he appears but that Christians are very gullible and self deceiving.

[SteveII]

1. Khem and I are going back and forth in another thread on this. I intend to reply to him tonight, but in general Naturalism teaches that we are the product of time and chance (evolution). That process cannot endow us with intrinsic (defined as belonging naturally, essential) value any more than anything else that evolved. I am not saying that we don't have value, but rather that the value comes from things we can do and not simply because we exist. 

If God exists, he created us for a purpose and gives us intrinsic (defined as belonging naturally, essential) value/meaning/purpose. For example, take a block of wood. It has the properties of wood (fiberous, organic, brown, hard, etc.). If a craftsman take the block of wood and transforms it into a chair, it now has the new properties and purpose of being a chair. If it had grown into something that looks like a chair, we could not call it a chair and it would not have those properties and purpose of being a chair. 

2. No, you view humanity as fine the way it is. I believe a relationship with God is needed and can make it better. Christians believe that humans were made in the image of God. How much more respect do you need?

1.Thank's for the English lesson Steve.

The block of wood you describe was once a tree, alive and serving it's purpose on the planet.
I feel (just like the tree) that I have a purpose already, and do not require your God to give me a purpose.

2.I believe humanity would benefit greatly if we ditched all notions of God. I believe we evolved, so again no need for God or his respect.

1. You will see that defining your terms is important and avoids tangents/confusion. Speaking of which:

The definition of purpose: the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. Just as the tree has no purpose, neither does any product of evolution--including man. What does that mean practically speaking? If naturalism is true, we invent purpose. If we invent purpose, it was different in the past and will be different in the future. Some people's purpose is opposed to others (which you can't say is objectively wrong). That does not sit well with many people. 

2. Do you have reasons why you believe that ditching religion would be beneficial?