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Now and before.
#1
Now and before.
This a very serious post. I don't intend to joke in it; didn't I also use double meanings.
Let's begin:

Having a start, we must have a point before that start. Let's imagine the two points: 

1-Start
2-Pre start

If taken with the same context, with the same meaning dictionary, the pre start, or 2, can always be the start within a different universe, resulting in an infinite vacuum.

But an instance of logic would suggest, that once we cross the "start" borders backwardly, the context of now will have no meaning; it will cease to exist.

The start point was suggested to be named "The Big Bang" in our universe, nobody knows anything about point 2; or "Pre start". If meanings can't even exist in that void; void itself lost its meaning before point 1; how does point 2 can even exist ?

We will never solve it. We will forever be locked tight in our context of "now"; the context that began with point 1.
Only God is the way out of this dogma of lost meaning.

What means what, when what itself loses the colors that makes it a what; when would not work since light itself is not; darkness is also not; nothing is; but everything is not.

Before point 1; nothing would mean. Context doesn't exist. How could particles be?
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#2
RE: Now and before.
Argument from Ignorance.
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#3
RE: Now and before.
Empty universes are theoretically unstable, and there is some science behind that.

Also, you're not thinking about either anthropological (strong or weak) principle coming into play.

Scientific American even ran an article on your pre-start thing in the last couple years. Head to the library !!
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#4
RE: Now and before.
What about empty heads?
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#5
RE: Now and before.
Word salad is about as polite as I can be about the OP. Like you Atlas, but this is merely what I have seen from countless others from just about every religion you can think of in 16 years of online debate. When you have no positive proof with independent peer review, you resort to pretending philosophy can replace a neutral science lab.

How about anyone of any religion in the world consider that religion and god claims are merely the products of human's imaginations reflecting their own narcissism, fears, desires and insecurities based mostly on what the parents hand down to the youth of the world?

Science explains nature and the universe, not religion.
All I am seeing in the OP is different words in attempt to avoid burden of proof.
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#6
RE: Now and before.
Aye, Brian.  As Ingersoll noted:


Quote:We have heard talk enough. We have listened to all the drowsy, idealess, vapid sermons that we wish to hear. We have read your Bible and the works of your best minds. We have heard your prayers, your solemn groans and your reverential amens. All these amount to less than nothing. We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact. We know all about your mouldy wonders and your stale miracles. We want a this year's fact. We ask only one. Give us one fact for charity. Your miracles are too ancient. The witnesses have been dead for nearly two thousand years.

-- Robert Green Ingersoll, "The Gods" (1872)

It's as true for allah shit as jesus shit.
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#7
RE: Now and before.
(March 12, 2017 at 12:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Aye, Brian.  As Ingersoll noted:


Quote:We have heard talk enough. We have listened to all the drowsy, idealess, vapid sermons that we wish to hear. We have read your Bible and the works of your best minds. We have heard your prayers, your solemn groans and your reverential amens. All these amount to less than nothing. We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact. We know all about your mouldy wonders and your stale miracles. We want a this year's fact. We ask only one. Give us one fact for charity. Your miracles are too ancient. The witnesses have been dead for nearly two thousand years.

-- Robert Green Ingersoll, "The Gods" (1872)

It's as true for allah shit as jesus shit.

Lets not single out labels here. I am talking about how all religions in human history are merely products of human's flawed perceptions. We reject Allah and Jesus for the same reason we reject Buddha, which while not claimed to be a deity, is still rooted in a past where humans made up answers because they didn't know any better.

Nirvana is as much a superstition as claims of turning water into wine, or dietary superstitions of Jews not eating pork. I really don't say that to be mean to my fellow human beings. Theists certainly are capable of empathy and compassion and outside religion can be accepting of science too. I simply accept that there is no magic behind nature and no holy person or religious club needed to accept that. 

They are crappy claims certainly, not because theists are horrible, but because the logic is horrible. Anyone of any religion trying to make truth claims about the nature of reality to me is the same as if they came up to me and said "The New England Patriots beat the Chicago Cubs in the Stanley Cup". I may like that individual as an individual but on claims of religions, nope. I know too much about evolution and the age of our species, and planet and the age of the universe  to think that I am special to all this. I certainly find value in life even with all the horrible things, even with the death of my mom now, but cant see myself outside of mental and or health decline ever falling back  into or falling for any religion or god claim.

Polytheism, monotheism, new age, even the si fi woo claims that the universe is a giant living thing, it is all crap to me. I see cognition as merely  blip and temporary outcome not needing a god or any form of feel good woo.
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#8
RE: Now and before.
'Pre-start' is, in and of itself, a meaningless term, equal to 'What existed before anything existed?'. Thus, any conundra requiring this concept is dead from go.

Godism doesn't get you out of it, either, as you implicitly posit God existing before anything existed.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#9
RE: Now and before.
There is a reason why the big bang is a called a singularity... our known physics does not know how to handle that event.
That means that you cannot claim anything about it.
That means that all your intuition, all your philosophy can very well be useless.

And that is why the very first reply you got was "argument from ignorance".
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#10
RE: Now and before.
I'm more worried about the immediate problems.  Really couldn't care less about Zeus or Zoroaster or Quetzlcoatl.

Right now, its muslims and jesus freaks who are fucking things up.
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