Theists: What is the most compelling argument you have heard for Atheism?

[Neo-Scholastic]

What the fine tuning argument is saying; is that the evidence shows that something capable of choice and direction is responsible for what is being seen.  It also makes the notion that there is no purpose or intention behind what we see as difficult.

I would refer you to Thomas Nagel's "Mind & Cosmos" who similarly argues that excluding purpose and intention from nature, by fiat, is to deny the obvious - teleology is an essential feature of the world. Ultimately, Nagel rejects theism, but goes so far as to admit his bias - he, like any of a multitude of skeptics here, doesn't want theism to be true. The way I see it, Nagel, is on a dead end quest to recover Aristotelian Final Cause with out any theistic entailment.

[Brian37]

What the fine tuning argument is saying; is that the evidence shows that something capable of choice and direction is responsible for what is being seen.  It also makes the notion that there is no purpose or intention behind what we see as difficult.

I would refer you to Thomas Nagel's "Mind & Cosmos" who similarly argues that excluding purpose and intention from nature, by fiat, is to deny the obvious - teleology is an essential feature of the world. Ultimately, Nagel rejects theism, but goes so far as to admit his bias - he, like any of a multitude of skeptics here, doesn't want theism to be true. The way I see it, Nagel, is on a dead end quest to recover Aristotelian Final Cause with out any theistic entailment.

Stop equating "atheist" as being bias. It merely means "off" on god claims. To know what the individual atheists holds as a position, ask the individual then go from there.

Scientific method is completely independent of personal bias, or at least it should be if one values neutrality in a lab.

And again, you like people with other god claims and other religious clubs refuse to see that you all make the same arguments. 

Sam Harris is a neurologist and an atheist, but also has a Buddhism fetish. Pointing to smart people with degrees does not make them right about every single topic. Sam is dead wrong claiming science points to Buddhism. Scientific method is a tool, not a club,  a process, not a religion. Sam has a bias, but that does not mean the word "atheist" makes all atheists bias.

[SteveII]

What the fine tuning argument is saying; is that the evidence shows that something capable of choice and direction is responsible for what is being seen.  It also makes the notion that there is no purpose or intention behind what we see as difficult.


"just assuming that if no one knows, god did it is the default" is a strawman, whether from ignorance, or it is intentional.

I still don't see the evidence that the FTA refers to.

The evidence is the fine-tuning. The argument discusses what we can infer from the evidence.

[Jesster]

What fine-tuning?

[Brian37]

I still don't see the evidence that the FTA refers to.

The evidence is the fine-tuning. The argument discusses what we can infer from the evidence.

HELLO MCFLY the "fine tuning" argument is bullshit, and every religion has tried to pull it. IT DOES NOT WORK! It does not work when Christians pull it, it does not work when Muslims pull it, it does not work when Jews pull it.

"fine tuning" is simply bullshit falling for your emotions because you find pretty things in nature and the universe. SO THE FUCK WHAT, there are plenty of nasty harmful things on our planet that DO NOT benefit humans alone, nasty things that kill us all the time. The solar system also has comets and asteroids that have hit the planets in our solar system. A meteor killed off the dinosaurs. You claim that kind of destruction and death is "fine tuned". I don't that looks more like the behavior of a fucking drunk driver. So unless you want to claim your God is inept, or a dick and we are his lab rats or toys, maybe the reality is there is no god and this is simply what our universe turned out to be.

But if you are going to insert a prime mover you are STILL STUCK with WHICH ONE, Allah/Yahweh/Brahama/Vishnu? 

Is ecoli "fine tuned"? Is childhood cancer "fine tuned"? The fact humans can choke on their food and die, that is "fine tuned"? Are cockroaches "fine tuned"?

You are so full of shit. Life and the universe do have pretty things in it SO THE FUCK WHAT, it is also mostly empty and hostile to life. If you want to claim this is efficient you are a moron. That seems like of a ton of waste to me with very little output.

[SteveII]

The evidence is the fine-tuning. The argument discusses what we can infer from the evidence.

You are so full of shit. Life and the universe do have pretty things in it SO THE FUCK WHAT, it is also mostly empty and hostile to life. If you want to claim this is efficient you are a moron. That seems like of a ton of waste to me with very little output.

Please don't reply to anything I write expecting a reply in return. Your juvenile thinking, serious anger issues, and one-trick pony argument don't interest me in the least and I don't care to see your posts on my feed.

[Brian37]

You are so full of shit. Life and the universe do have pretty things in it SO THE FUCK WHAT, it is also mostly empty and hostile to life. If you want to claim this is efficient you are a moron. That seems like of a ton of waste to me with very little output.

Please don't reply to anything I write expecting a reply in return. Your juvenile thinking, serious anger issues, and one-trick pony argument don't interest me in the least and I don't care to see your posts on my feed.

No sorry, "juvenile" is still insisting on Santa being real when you are an adult. "Juvenile" is thinking an old bronze age book of myth written by scientifically ignorant humans contains any modern scientific understanding. 

I don't care to see bad arguments that are false spread to my fellow humans that in turn dumb them down by using the guise of sounding true by PRETENDING to match science. 

Your book has never been a science textbook. You have no right to get upset at me for something I was not around to write. When someone corrects your mistake you say "thank you", you don't get upset with them. 

Your knee jerk reaction to my being blunt with you is your baggage. You are like a kid at the checkout isle who gets frustrated when the parent tells them they cant have candy. It is not my fault someone convinced you your book of myth was true, I am telling you it is just that, and old book of myth. How about you grow up.

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What fine-tuning?

My mom dying over a period of weeks from an infection, scared and in pain. I guess that is what he means by "fine tuning"? Or maybe hurricanes existing means the Ocean God Poseidon "fine tunes" hurricanes. Or maybe the Hawaiian God Pele "fine tunes" volcanic eruptions.

Naw, all this is a battle between Yoda and Darth Vader.

[Jesster]

What fine-tuning?

My mom dying over a period of weeks from an infection, scared and in pain. I guess that is what he means by "fine tuning"? Or maybe hurricanes existing means the Ocean God Poseidon "fine tunes" hurricanes. Or maybe the Hawaiian God Pele "fine tunes" volcanic eruptions.

Naw, all this is a battle between Yoda and Darth Vader.

Well at least someone responded to me. I guess the theists don't want to convince me after all.

[Brian37]

My mom dying over a period of weeks from an infection, scared and in pain. I guess that is what he means by "fine tuning"? Or maybe hurricanes existing means the Ocean God Poseidon "fine tunes" hurricanes. Or maybe the Hawaiian God Pele "fine tunes" volcanic eruptions.

Naw, all this is a battle between Yoda and Darth Vader.

Well at least someone responded to me. I guess the theists don't want to convince me after all.

It's really all a battle between Yoda and Darth Vader, trust me. They've made several box office documentaries that are popular.

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Hey SteveII

Ever notice how blunt Judge Judy is? Ever see an episode where she throws out the case and doesn't give the claimant anything and also throws out the counter suit and both walk out with nothing? That is how skeptics like me treat all religions. My bluntness with you is the same, even with other atheists when I think they got it wrong. 

If you had a friend walking around every day claiming "The New England Patriots beat the Chicago Cubs in the Stanley Cup" and they repeated that falsehood over and over, don't tell me you would not get to the point of being irritated enough to correct them.

I get that you like what you believe, but so what. Others like what they believe. Many atheists here did and maybe some have used that same "fine tuning" argument you still use. But again, this is nothing new we haven't seen before, and arguing science isn't a patent solely owned by one religion, they all do it, not just you, and not just your religion.

I am being blunt with you, nothing more. You on the other hand still insist on defending a very old book that does not contain the slightest understanding of what modern science does. You are simply mentally reaching back in time after the fact merely to convince yourself, nothing more.

[RoadRunner79]

the evidence shows

I sure would like to see this evidence.

Evidence For Fine Tuning