Trans people & sports

[Shell B]

Don't tell me everyone cares so much about this issue in sport it's worth this huge thread. It's just another avenue to dehumanise, like water fountains used to be.

This right here shows me that most of the people here who don't think it *might* be something worth considering are people who don't care about sports. I'll tell you right fucking now that people who care about sports will obsess for decades over a shortstop who let a ball slide between his feet during the World Series, debate for hours every time they see each other soon after a game where a controversial rule led to a loss or a win. Ever heard of the Snow Bowl? We still talk about that shit here in Mass. It happened more than a decade ago. Fuck you for thinking my interest in whether sports are fair is because I want to dehumanize someone. You're attributing malice to a genuine interest in sports because you don't fucking understand it. Fuck off with your shit accusations.

They've lost the battle against black people. They've lost the argument against gay people. Now those who need to have prejudice are going after trans people. I wonder who is next?

Well, I'm here arguing that it might be unfair, and that it is important if it is. I've never argued against gay, black or trans people in my life. I'm arguing for athletes who want fair competition, including trans individuals. *If* an unfair advantage exists, those athletes want to know too, I'm sure. It's important we know if there is and how to fix it. If you can definitively prove that, across a large sample group, trans and bio female athletes are comparable enough to compete against each other, that can only be good for the credibility of trans women in sports.

It's a ludicrous leap to suggest that people discussing trans athletes are bored racists. Fuck yourself. I know alpha male is known to be a conservative who I would not be surprised to find is racist, but what about the rest of us? I'm sure my rainbow-colored array of friends and family will be surprised to learn I'm a racist homophobe whose only interest in the fairness of sports is to demean trans individuals.

[Catholic_Lady]

Fucking prejudice. Fuck's sake. You notice that a trans woman may be more like a man that a biological woman and all of a sudden you're prejudiced?

Have you ever noticed that black people have darker skin? You're prejudiced.

It's the obsession with the detail. Why is this even an issue? Because some want to bash trans people at every opportunity. Don't tell me everyone cares so much about this issue in sport it's worth this huge thread. It's just another avenue to dehumanise, like water fountains used to be.

They've lost the battle against black people. They've lost the argument against gay people. Now those who need to have prejudice are going after trans people. I wonder who is next?

Right. 

Pull the ol' transphobic/racist/bigot card to try and shut down discussion. Typical.

---

And for the record, if it is shown that mtf folks actually don't have any sort of male advantage over the other women in a physical competition, then I would have absolutely ZERO problem with them competing against each other. I highly doubt there isn't, but if I am proven wrong, then I'd be fine with it.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Notice how Alpha Male started the thread, didn't say much at all and when it finally died made another short post not saying anything worthwhile to keep it going?

Fuck that.

[Catholic_Lady]

He posted a current news story that is directly relevant to the thread topic. Not sure how this isn't worthwhile.

[Shell B]

Oh, any excuse to be premenstrual about this discussion even happening is good enough for these folks.

[Catholic_Lady]

Why not try to address the point of the article he posted rather than just accuse him of not posting anything worthwhile?

[Shell B]

I'll address it. That kid clearly has masculine features (huge leg muscles, etc.) and is pre-transition. She definitely has an advantage. However, I'm not sure it bothers me in high school sports. No one is making money or career prestige off it. Track doesn't involve potentially dangerous contact as well. I do understand that it might bother the other girls too, so it's obviously more complicated. I believe I said before they I think schools should be able to work this out on their own.

[Catholic_Lady]

As a track and cross country runner in high school, and always coming after the guys on my team, it would bother me a lot to be beat by someone (and watch my girlfriends who work so hard be beat by someone) with a male advantage in an all girl's race when we are finally separated from the men and have a chance to come in first.

I agree it's not nearly as big of a deal as professional sports where people actually make money and a career out of it, and it's good that running isn't a contact sport where people can actually hurt each other. But to a high school girl who puts a lot into her sports and works really hard, it is important.

I still think it isn't fair to the other girls and I certainly would be upset.

[Shell B]

Yeah, as I said, I think it's a complicated issue. The other girls seemed perfectly happy with it, so if they're good with it, I have no complaint. Of course, you're right. There is the possibility that it bothers them, which is why I leave it to the school.

It's very sad that these people are born with the wrong bodies or the wrong hormones or a "mental disorder," as some trans people and some not-so-nice people might label it. I'm not sure of the cause of trangenderism, but I think it's awfully sad, and must be terribly uncomfortable for trans people. Still, they have been born transgender, and will have to learn to navigate their lives as transgender people, realizing that they are not "less" than their preferred gender, but that they are different. It's a shit card to be dealt, unless you're a really well-adapted person who owns that shit. A lot of us are dealt shit cards. We can't pretend that card was never dealt, but we can embrace transgenderism for the perfectly normal, but inherently different, thing that it is. Neither denying there are differences or denying these people have legitimate needs, rights and complaints will help.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Why not try to address the point of the article he posted rather than just accuse him of not posting anything worthwhile?

Because why should transsexuals have to justify their existence every time an American white heterosexual Christian male demands it for the silliest of reasons?

Transsexuals are ruining our sports. Transsexuals are invading our toilets. Transsexuals are destroying the concept of marriage. Transsexuals are rewriting history by changing their birth certificates.

Transsexuals exist.

Deal with it.