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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 3:19 pm
(April 20, 2017 at 2:40 pm)Chad32 Wrote: But when he decided, at that moment, that he didn't want to go through with it, then suddenly he couldn't say no. They were not in agreement then, and he didn't want to die, but was unable to refuse. Jesus and the Father are not always of one mind.
Did you ever want to do something that you were afraid to do? You may hesitate and try to find excuses not to do it, but you know that you will because that's what you really want oe need to do. Jesus was dealing with his fear of what was to come.
Quote:Still waiting for the explanation of how murder absolves you of evil deeds, including the murder you commit to absolve yourself of past deeds.
If I commit murder, it doesn't absolve me of my sins. The only blood that does is the blood of Jesus. That is the only blood sacrifice that saves us. The old testament sacrifices were useless to absolve anyone from sin.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 3:57 pm
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2017 at 3:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
How is that the only blood sacrifice that atones us, if it's even a blood sacrifice that -can- atone us..if that's even possible?
UIf it wre possible, and was a blood sacrifice that could atone us, why would we accept the offer? Can we accept the offer and remain consistently moral agents?
No amount of repeating the articles of your faith can or will answer these questions.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:00 pm
Quote:The only blood that does is the blood of Jesus.
Too bad for you that this jesus guy is just a made-up character in a piss-poor novel.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:13 pm
So, if I want to atone for my sins I need to shed blood.
Now, I do both, professionally and as a (secret) hobby.
So do both count?
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:17 pm
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2017 at 4:41 pm by SteveII.)
(April 20, 2017 at 3:57 pm)Khemikal Wrote: How is that the only blood sacrifice that atones us, if it's even a blood sacrifice that -can- atone us..if that's even possible?
UIf it wre possible, and was a blood sacrifice that could atone us, why would we accept the offer? Can we accept the offer and remain consistently moral agents?
No amount of repeating the articles of your faith can or will answer these questions.
A blood sacrifice cannot atone for us (see Hebrews 10:4). Justice and holiness are essential qualities of God. If God's holiness and justice required that sin results in total separation from God for eternity for each person, everyone was doomed (we have all sinned and are not holy). As the penalty of sin was death for us, God's substitution required death. However, because he was eternal and perfect, his death was sufficient for all of mankind--thus satisfying the requirements of his essential nature.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:44 pm
(April 20, 2017 at 3:19 pm)Lek Wrote: (April 20, 2017 at 2:40 pm)Chad32 Wrote: But when he decided, at that moment, that he didn't want to go through with it, then suddenly he couldn't say no. They were not in agreement then, and he didn't want to die, but was unable to refuse. Jesus and the Father are not always of one mind.
Did you ever want to do something that you were afraid to do? You may hesitate and try to find excuses not to do it, but you know that you will because that's what you really want oe need to do. Jesus was dealing with his fear of what was to come.
Quote:Still waiting for the explanation of how murder absolves you of evil deeds, including the murder you commit to absolve yourself of past deeds.
If I commit murder, it doesn't absolve me of my sins. The only blood that does is the blood of Jesus. That is the only blood sacrifice that saves us. The old testament sacrifices were useless to absolve anyone from sin.
Nobody ever held me down and hurt me when I changed my mind about doing something I previously agreed to do, because that would be wrong. The second I change my mind about something, I no longer want to do it. I am no longer a voluntary participant. A common example people use is the idea of sex. Most people like sex. Most people would agree to sex, if their schedule was open. But when one person says no, the other person should back off, because then it becomes rape. The gy spent over an hour, repeatedly praying to avoid this, and in the end, the Father still didn't have the balls to watch the whole thing.
One murder is as bad as another. What absolved people of Jesus' murder? Or did everyone involved just go straight to hell? Your god commanded animals be killed just because he got off on the smell of blood, or something? Blood and pain is the one thing that makes him happy? This makes no sense.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:49 pm
(April 20, 2017 at 4:13 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: So, if I want to atone for my sins I need to shed blood.
Now, I do both, professionally and as a (secret) hobby.
So do both count?
No. The sacrifice has already been made for all of us. Just believe in Jesus and repent for your sins....and here you thought you had a job that would get you around that!
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:52 pm
(April 20, 2017 at 4:49 pm)Lek Wrote: (April 20, 2017 at 4:13 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: So, if I want to atone for my sins I need to shed blood.
Now, I do both, professionally and as a (secret) hobby.
So do both count?
No. The sacrifice has already been made for all of us. Just believe in Jesus and repent for your sins....and here you thought you had a job that would get you around that!
No, I don't think I have a job that would get me around that.
I just accept that "that" is utter nonsense.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 20, 2017 at 4:54 pm
(April 20, 2017 at 3:57 pm)Khemikal Wrote: UIf it wre possible, and was a blood sacrifice that could atone us, why would we accept the offer? Can we accept the offer and remain consistently moral agents?
The reason I accept the offer is because that's what he wants me to do and I serve him. Living with him for eternity also is something I want to experience.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
April 21, 2017 at 2:45 pm
(April 20, 2017 at 1:23 pm)Lek Wrote: (April 20, 2017 at 1:10 pm)Chad32 Wrote: It is a bit odd. Not just the spilling of blood, but the spilling of innocent blood. Meaning you have to murder something so you can be forgiven for your wrongdoings. Talk about two wrongs making a right, somehow. What absolves you of the sin of murder, then? It makes no sense, except within a culture where blood sacrifice and scapegoating is the norm.
And yes, Jesus was following a rule imposed on him that he didn't want to follow. There's even a verse explicitely saying this, where Jesus asked Yahweh/Jehova to let this cup pass from him. Matthew 26:36.
Jesus was afraid as any human would be. That was part of the suffering he would endure. But......
John 10:18New Living Translation (NLT)
18 No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.”
Jesus and the Father are in total agreement.
John 10:30New Living Translation (NLT)
30 The Father and I are one.” That in no way nullifies my original point. Nice try, though.
And no, I did not answer your question. I saw it for the digression that it is. Stick to the point.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
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