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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 14, 2017 at 12:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2017 at 1:10 pm by Lek.)
(May 13, 2017 at 11:00 pm)Grandizer Wrote: How then does one identify the fruits of salvation as opposed to just good works? I sort of remember Jesus saying in the Gospels that you shall know them by their fruits.
What he is saying that you will be able to separate the ones who just claim to have faith from the ones who really do have faith by their works. If someone claims to faith, but has no good works then they are lying.
(May 14, 2017 at 9:31 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: Tell Christians to read those passages. I should not have to read the Bible to see how Christians act. I read their lives and tell it like it is.
Then don't make statements about your interpretation of christian doctrine contained in the bible if you don't want to read what's there.
Quote:Then you totally disagree with Paul.
Romans 4:5 Wrote:But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Now you decide to read the bible when you think it backs up what you say. Paul is speaking the truth in that our works can't save us. We are only saved by our faith in Christ. Paul is making the distinction between what saves us and what doesn't. James is saying that if we have faith, we will do good works because faith produces good works. He's not saying that the works are what save us. It's still our faith that makes us righteous.
Romans 6:15-16New Living Translation (NLT)
15 Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.
Quote:Yes, I've been told to read Paul in light of James. All that means in practice is ignore Paul. Read the part about having faith and ignore the part about without works.
Yes. To understand the message of the bible you must take it as a whole. You shouldn't ignore any passages, including James.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 8:12 am
(May 14, 2017 at 11:51 am)Cyberman Wrote: Accurate, but Drich is maintaining either that ISIS is producing evil fruit, or is itself evil fruit (his language is characteristically ambiguous). I want to know what about it makes it intrinsically evil.
The trick, of course, is for him to either find something ISIS is doing that his god has not commanded his people to do or maintain that some things are evil when Allah commands ISIS to do them but not when his god commands people to do them.
Prepare to shake your head.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 8:36 am
(This post was last modified: May 15, 2017 at 9:28 am by Drich.)
(May 13, 2017 at 11:00 pm)Grandizer Wrote: (May 13, 2017 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: They're all good works. If you have faith in Christ you will do good works. Works can happen apart from faith, but faith cannot exist apart from works.
How then does one identify the fruits of salvation as opposed to just good works? I sort of remember Jesus saying in the Gospels that you shall know them by their fruits. Because 'good works' are done for the praise (even if the praise is just between the doer and the needy) The fruit of salvation is seen as almost a debt or obligation one is happily tasked to do.
(May 14, 2017 at 11:51 am)Cyberman Wrote: Accurate, but Drich is maintaining either that ISIS is producing evil fruit, or is itself evil fruit (his language is characteristically ambiguous). I want to know what about it makes it intrinsically evil.
Evil is a word that describes an extreme desire or act that puts one directly outside the expressed will of God.
In society evil is an extreme 'moral transgression.'
For the sake of this argument, I over lapped the two definitions where God's righteousness and man's morality both say what ISIS is doing is wrong.
Beheading of westerners, wholesale slaughter of Christians, the destruction of non Muslim city's and artifacts. The tyranny they rain down in whatever region they hold.
These are all examples of evil fruit.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 9:33 am
(May 15, 2017 at 8:36 am)Drich Wrote: (May 13, 2017 at 11:00 pm)Grandizer Wrote: How then does one identify the fruits of salvation as opposed to just good works? I sort of remember Jesus saying in the Gospels that you shall know them by their fruits. Because 'good works' are done for the praise (even if the praise is just between the doer and the needy) The fruit of salvation is seen as almost a debt or obligation one is happily tasked to do.
Why shouldn't humans ge t some praise? We do all the work. You have a god who wants to take all the credit when we do good but no responsibility when we do bad. It don't work that way, daddy.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 9:43 am
Lek Wrote:Rhondazvous Wrote:It's the Christians who have it made. They're saved by grace, so they can sow seeds to the flesh all week then go to church on Sunday and pray for a crop failure. Neat!
Why are you saying this when you know it's not true? If you're going to argue against christianity why don't you argue honestly? Read the books of James and 1 John.
Yeah! It's not fair to judge Christianity by Christians!
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 9:45 am
(May 15, 2017 at 8:36 am)Drich Wrote: Beheading of westerners, wholesale slaughter of Christians, the destruction of non Muslim city's and artifacts. The tyranny they rain down in whatever region they hold.
These are all examples of evil fruit.
That means a huge part of the christians in the past were evil.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 9:50 am
And not a few in the present: Lord's Resistance Army, KKK, the CAR's current attempt at exterminating Muslims (the Muslim population of Bangui has dropped from 138,000 to around 900), National Liberation Front of Tripura, Army of God, Lambs of Christ, Concerned Christians, etc.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 15, 2017 at 10:14 am
(May 15, 2017 at 9:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: And not a few in the present: Lord's Resistance Army, KKK, the CAR's current attempt at exterminating Muslims (the Muslim population of Bangui has dropped from 138,000 to around 900), National Liberation Front of Tripura, Army of God, Lambs of Christ, Concerned Christians, etc.
Dayam! Guess they stopped believing Jesus' kingdom is not of this world millennia ago.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 16, 2017 at 10:07 am
(May 15, 2017 at 8:36 am)Drich Wrote: (May 14, 2017 at 11:51 am)Cyberman Wrote: Accurate, but Drich is maintaining either that ISIS is producing evil fruit, or is itself evil fruit (his language is characteristically ambiguous). I want to know what about it makes it intrinsically evil.
Evil is a word that describes an extreme desire or act that puts one directly outside the expressed will of God.
In society evil is an extreme 'moral transgression.'
For the sake of this argument, I over lapped the two definitions where God's righteousness and man's morality both say what ISIS is doing is wrong.
Beheading of westerners, wholesale slaughter of Christians, the destruction of non Muslim city's and artifacts. The tyranny they rain down in whatever region they hold.
These are all examples of evil fruit.
But everyone dies, right?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin
May 17, 2017 at 8:26 am
(May 16, 2017 at 10:07 am)Cyberman Wrote: (May 15, 2017 at 8:36 am)Drich Wrote: Evil is a word that describes an extreme desire or act that puts one directly outside the expressed will of God.
In society evil is an extreme 'moral transgression.'
For the sake of this argument, I over lapped the two definitions where God's righteousness and man's morality both say what ISIS is doing is wrong.
Beheading of westerners, wholesale slaughter of Christians, the destruction of non Muslim city's and artifacts. The tyranny they rain down in whatever region they hold.
These are all examples of evil fruit.
But everyone dies, right?
yes
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