Fatwa declares suicide attacks as Haram

[Aroura]

I realize it probably wont do much, but arent people always saying moderates need to police the extremists? Then when they try, is it helpful to be all, laaaame bro!

[Chad32]

The problem is not with Islamic fundamentalists, it's with the fundamentals of Islam.

Muhammad was a sex slave owning conquering warlord who conducted a violent and successful insurgency and received all of his Sura (the quran) while conducting this violent insurgency. He received his sura on an "as needed" basis as he was conquering Arabia.  Much of Islam is therefore concerned with rules handed from god to Muhammad about how to conduct a violent insurgency. 

Violent insurgency is hardwired into Islam and there's no changing that. Ever! 

Yes, Muhammed spoke of other things, but the violent insurgent ideology doesn't go away just because moderate muslims and liberal westerners reject that part of it or pretend it's not there. In fact, fundamentalists will simply treat this group of scholars as infidels since they are clearly going against much of what Muhammad said and did.

Don't be surprised to find some of these scholars turning up dead.

If christianity can be dragged out of that kind of thing, so can islam. I don't see why not.

Not that we don't still have christians in America calling for gays to be rounded up and killed, but they aren't as bad as they used to be.

[Minimalist]

I realize it probably wont do much, but arent people always saying moderates need to police the extremists? Then when they try, is it helpful to be all, laaaame bro!

Doesn't matter what we say.  What matters is what the Imams who the nutjobs listen to have to say.

[vorlon13]

I realize it probably wont do much, but arent people always saying moderates need to police the extremists? Then when they try, is it helpful to be all, laaaame bro!

Doesn't matter what we say.  What matters is what the Imams who the nutjobs listen to have to say.

How many of the pious Islamites have the moderates killed to make their point ? 


Cuz that is how it will have to play out to work.

[Rev. Rye]

I wonder how much scholarly study and debate it required to come up with that? They should have asked me.

You'd be surprised. Given that, evidently, an alarming number of Muslims have a loose enough definition of martyrdom that blowing yourself up for some apparently worthy cause counts as martyrdom and not terrorism (or even suicide), it might take quite a bit of work looking into the Quran and Hadith to come up with an argument as to why it doesn't.

That said, I doubt that many members of ISIS would be likely to heed these scholars' words. Also, it turns out a fatwa isn't really legally binding. It's more like a Judicial Opinion that virtually anyone trained in Islamic Law (everyone from the local Supreme Courts to presumably some self-taught Sharia-equivalent to Suits' Mike Ross) can make. Due to this, legally, they're only binding to the scholars who made them and their allies.

This fatwa will, in the short run, at least, likely do bugger all to stop suicide bombers.

[Crunchy]

Chad32 Wrote:
If christianity can be dragged out of that kind of thing, so can islam. I don't see why not.

Because religions are not all the same. They are not equals.
There are many differences between islam and christianity but a very large one is the difference between the founders. Jesus did not become a military conqueror and political leader. His life is a very different example than that of Muhammad's.

Jesus said to render unto caesar what is caesar's. Jesus had no intention of becoming a political or military leader even if many of his later followers did. Insurgency is simply not hardwired into the Bible the way it is hardwired into Islamic holy texts as reflected by both Muhammad's words and deeds.
Would you expect capitalists to accept govt takeover of industry while remaining capitalists? No, they would have to abandon their beliefs for this to happen. Same thing with Islam. Islamic texts teach outright and in no uncertain terms that the only ruling ideology is to be islam itself and that applies to military and political leadership as well as spiritual leadership. Even if many Muslims are able to redact large parts of the Quran and Hadith from their minds, this does not in any way alter the teachings that remain in the holy books.  They remain in place ready to be used whenever the opportunity arises.

The proof is that christian dominant nations were able to secularize and islamic nations were largely not. Even those that have secularized (like Turkey) are always on the verge of drifting back to islamic states as Turkey is now doing. The reason is because that is a central theme of islam and not a central theme of christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism etc...

[WinterHold]

 Same thing with Islam. Islamic texts teach outright and in no uncertain terms that the only ruling ideology is to be islam itself

Sura 2,Page 42, The Quran:
( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Why lie?
I mean it's just sad.. You can quote? and furthermore prove with quoting and narrating; but just like terrorists, you strip what you like from a book; ignoring the context all of a sudden; just to prove a sick twisted xenophobic agenda...
 

Sura 60, Page 550, The Quran:
( 7 )   Perhaps Allah will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And Allah is competent, and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Why lie?
The Quran officially tells me TO BE JUST TOWARDS THOSE WHO DIDN'T FIGHT ME.
Why the filthy beating on the drums of war? 
What you're doing is what gives terrorists their propaganda fuel. They pick the ignorant words of people like you and show it to us saying: "See see? I told you !!! they hate us !!!" Then little Khalid feels outcast, then he says "but the Quran is telling me to be good to good people...but these are twisting the words of my holy book!" Then ALLALALA Boom !!! 5 westerners die along with Khalid.

All because Khalid had a wrong turn, because he lived in the Middle East before he immigrate to the west, and all because he had a terrorist low life friend who used Crunchy and his likes as a source, didn't respect the Quran just like crunchy, or even respect human life.

So boom; Janette gets her guts spilled because of the above...

Please get a life.
And my motto is this:
( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Hang it on your bedroom. It cures and helps with Bipolar disorders, and Manic episodes.

People must learn to read.

[Minimalist]

but a very large one is the difference between the founders.

Yeah - but "jesus" and "mohammed" were not the founders.  That would be giving fairy tales far too much credence.